Wall or no wall?

[stickerpatch59]

Wall and 5000+ new border patrol agents should slow it way down. I think they should hire military personnel that are looking for jobs when they come home.

you got it!!

[bpa556]

A wall along the entire border is not feasible and wouldn't work even if we were silly enough to do it anyway. 15 billion wouldn't cut it and the yearly maintenance would outstrip the initial cost very quickly. Walls seperating sister cities (those immediately across the border from one another) are the only ones that are of any use.

Immigration, legal and illegal, is an economic venture. America is the land of opportunity (economic) and they come to get their piece of it. America used to be the manufacturing capital of the world. The organized labor movement and nonsensical government regulation drove the cost of domestic labor so high that manufacturers were forced to move production outside the borders to remain competitive with foreign goods. This resulted in a shift towards a service based domestic workforce and has concentrated the population in metropolitan areas. As time wore on, Americans (majority of which are now in cities) have come to see any sort of manual labor professions as less respectable than white collar ones. This has severely depressed the economic potential for manual laborers. Illegal aliens from third world countries were quick to fill these much-needed, but less-respected, positions. Even considering their lower economic potential, they still earn a far greater living than they could at home.

When Congress pressed Reagan for amnesty in '86, he cut a deal with them. In exchange for amnesty, they created laws to actually stop illegal immigration. The greatest enforcement tools to come out of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) were worksite enforcement and employer sanctions. The INS and Border Patrol were tasked with going to employers and verifying the immigration status of employees working there. If an employer was found to be working illegal aliens, fines were levied. If they were found in violation again, fines increased vastly. If the violations continued, businesses could be fined out of existence. IRCA also prohibited any federal public assistance money from going to illegal aliens.

This enforcement mechanism was wildly sucessful. Jobs dried up and aliens left the country, voluntarily, in droves. This lead the Mexican government (mainly) to howl because the ammount of remittance being sent back from the US went from billions to tens of millions (only enough agents to police the big farms and businesses so the mom and pops went unmolested) within a few years.

The big farms and businesses that were targeted also happened to be the ones with the capital to lobby their representatives for relief. Non of those representatives had the stones to repeal the enforcement provisions of IRCA, so they went to the Attorney General and the Commisioner of INS (INS/BP was under the Department of Justice before those idiots created the useless leviathan that is DHS) and told them, in no uncertain terms, that Border Patrol was to cease worksite enforcement operations. BP has statutory authority to conduct patrol operations thuought the US and her territories. They were effectively chained to the border and the entirety of the interior US was left unenforced. With no one to inspect the workforce, employers were free to hire illegals once again. ICE does token worksite enforcement but immigration enforcement is not as sexy as catching child **** and fake Gucci purses so the interior offices don't focus on it. States also used "their own funds" to provide public assistance to illegal aliens and then used the "federal money" to make up the difference to the American/legals sponges.

If DC was serious about stopping illegal immigration to a trickle (those with real humanitarian need), they would take the leash off of the Patrol and let them begin worksite enforcement/employer sanctions in earnest. Within 3 years the US would be tens of millions of people lighter (not a commentary of the complexion of those leaving) and illegal alien traffic across the border would be easily controlled with a third the number of agents.

Dope traffic is not a Mexican/Columbian/Afghanistan problem. It is an American problem. As long as Americans feel the need to escape their horrible first-world realities with illegal natcotics, foriegners will continue to bring it here. Once again, domestic labor prices and government regulations dictate that they can produce it cheaper than we can...

Dry up the jobs and the immigration crisis shrinks to a minor irritation. The wall is a boondoggle that won't do a thing.

[Rakkasan2187]

Build a big wall.

[cwill]

I don't know if a wall solves anything, but what we have been doing isn't working. Personally if I owned land on the border I'd be fine with a wall and would rather have that than potentially dangerous illegals running around. Tons of landowners have abandoned their places on the border anyway out of fear. Wall or no wall something has got to be done and it needs to be drastic. Illegals have darn near drained our healthcare system and no telling how much they cost the US ever year from increased crime. There may be some honest folks crossing the river, but I'd venture to say that for every good one a **** crosses also. If Mexico won't help in the funding then it may be time for some persuasion.

[LWC]

A wall along the entire border is not feasible and wouldn't work even if we were silly enough to do it anyway. 15 billion wouldn't cut it and the yearly maintenance would outstrip the initial cost very quickly. Walls seperating sister cities (those immediately across the border from one another) are the only ones that are of any use.

Immigration, legal and illegal, is an economic venture. America is the land of opportunity (economic) and they come to get their piece of it. America used to be the manufacturing capital of the world. The organized labor movement and nonsensical government regulation drove the cost of domestic labor so high that manufacturers were forced to move production outside the borders to remain competitive with foreign goods. This resulted in a shift towards a service based domestic workforce and has concentrated the population in metropolitan areas. As time wore on, Americans (majority of which are now in cities) have come to see any sort of manual labor professions as less respectable than white collar ones. This has severely depressed the economic potential for manual laborers. Illegal aliens from third world countries were quick to fill these much-needed, but less-respected, positions. Even considering their lower economic potential, they still earn a far greater living than they could at home.

When Congress pressed Reagan for amnesty in '86, he cut a deal with them. In exchange for amnesty, they created laws to actually stop illegal immigration. The greatest enforcement tools to come out of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) were worksite enforcement and employer sanctions. The INS and Border Patrol were tasked with going to employers and verifying the immigration status of employees working there. If an employer was found to be working illegal aliens, fines were levied. If they were found in violation again, fines increased vastly. If the violations continued, businesses could be fined out of existence. IRCA also prohibited any federal public assistance money from going to illegal aliens.

This enforcement mechanism was wildly sucessful. Jobs dried up and aliens left the country, voluntarily, in droves. This lead the Mexican government (mainly) to howl because the ammount of remittance being sent back from the US went from billions to tens of millions (only enough agents to police the big farms and businesses so the mom and pops went unmolested) within a few years.

The big farms and businesses that were targeted also happened to be the ones with the capital to lobby their representatives for relief. Non of those representatives had the stones to repeal the enforcement provisions of IRCA, so they went to the Attorney General and the Commisioner of INS (INS/BP was under the Department of Justice before those idiots created the useless leviathan that is DHS) and told them, in no uncertain terms, that Border Patrol was to cease worksite enforcement operations. BP has statutory authority to conduct patrol operations thuought the US and her territories. They were effectively chained to the border and the entirety of the interior US was left unenforced. With no one to inspect the workforce, employers were free to hire illegals once again. ICE does token worksite enforcement but immigration enforcement is not as sexy as catching child **** and fake Gucci purses so the interior offices don't focus on it. States also used "their own funds" to provide public assistance to illegal aliens and then used the "federal money" to make up the difference to the American/legals sponges.

If DC was serious about stopping illegal immigration to a trickle (those with real humanitarian need), they would take the leash off of the Patrol and let them begin worksite enforcement/employer sanctions in earnest. Within 3 years the US would be tens of millions of people lighter (not a commentary of the complexion of those leaving) and illegal alien traffic across the border would be easily controlled with a third the number of agents.

Dope traffic is not a Mexican/Columbian/Afghanistan problem. It is an American problem. As long as Americans feel the need to escape their horrible first-world realities with illegal natcotics, foriegners will continue to bring it here. Once again, domestic labor prices and government regulations dictate that they can produce it cheaper than we can...

Dry up the jobs and the immigration crisis shrinks to a minor irritation. The wall is a boondoggle that won't do a thing.

Preach it brother. You obviously know more about the history of this mess than anyone I've found. Why do most folks get stuck going down this rabbit hole of a wall? I don't even hear it brought up by the "conservative" mouthpieces.

[tigerscowboy]

The wall is not going to stop the illegal immigration and drug smuggling. They should use the money to get better technology and start enforcing the law the way they should.

This project has to begin somewhere and I agree it should include numerous ideas and efforts.

Lets' start doing something and not wish we had vs more talking about it in another 4 years.

I've already committed to everyone I know that once I see ground is broken, I will drive to volunteer my own weekends with time, support, and labor to help with this project. I don't care if it's moving dirt in a wheel barrow, cold water to workers, or anything in between.

[BigRed323]

A wall isn't going to do anything.

There's already a huge border fence in the valley and it doesn't do anything

[Atfulldraw]

Wall
Towers
Border patrol manpower increase times 10
Cameras
Drones
Increased fines for employers, including jail time for repeat offenders

Build a huge prison in falfurrias (and fill it with wall builders)
When that gets full, have them build another one in El Paso and Laredo and wherever else
Grow lettuce and strawberries and whatever else, no tractors and no pay for picking.

Death penalty for any illegal who commits a felony.
No anchor babies.
No English as a second language taught in schools.

No more pressing one for English.

[Razrbk89]

I think deep down, everyone knows that a 1,954 mile wall isn't feasible, a complete waste of time. A lot of people just aren't ready to admit that they were wrong.

It would be a financial and ecological nightmare.

As mentioned above, punish the POS employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. No demand for cheap illegal labor, problem solved.

[tigerscowboy]

No wall.

It won't work and US taxpayers will foot the bill. Mexico is not going to pick up even one (count 'em) dollar of the costs. Need I mention ladders and tunnels?

I'm a construction estimator, that's my line of work. $15 billion? Keep in mind the complete folly would be a "government project". Equals X 2. I'm somewhat a professional along these lines, and my know-a-little-bit-about what-I'm-talking-about estimate is closer to $30 billion.

And the other issues involved. Can't build a wall in the middle of the Rio Grand River and there is no buffer zone throughout most of the State of
Texas. Which means ranchers / landowners gotta give up some land at whatever price the government comes up with. I expect many will fight (and ultimately lose) as they should and as most posters / readers would also.

And...
I care about the delicate environment and wildlife all up and down both sides of the River which would be affected enormously. If that makes me a "libtard"... Well, I suppose it does. I'm 70 years old and I've come to terms with who and what I am and I'm okay with me. Because I better be.


Bob Lee

Sometimes a few hogs, cows, and a lamb needs to go to slaughter in order to sustain the farm.

How many actually "live" along the border/river? How many U.S. residents to protect?

See "eminent domain"

[DUKFVR]

Big wall.

With towers manned by top shots with lots of ammo.

[Daniel75]

Sometimes a few hogs, cows, and a lamb needs to go to slaughter in order to sustain the farm.



How many actually "live" along the border/river? How many U.S. residents to protect?



See "eminent domain"

This^^^^ Some of those landowners are just gonna have to take it in the shorts for the betterment of the country. Remember fellas, 30,000+ new Democrats are streaming across the border a MONTH. The wall will not stop every singe one of them, tunnels and breaches will happen but think of it as ****ing a river and occasionally you'll have to patch leaks. You have to stop the bleeding at the source.

1. Build wall
2. Stiff penalties for employers who hire illegals
3. End funding for cities offering sanctuary to them
4. Add more BP agents
5. Enforce the laws already on the books
6. Cut the red tape that's holding them back from coming here legally
7. Huge taxes on Mexican imports to help pay for it

We have to start doing for ourselves and F everyone else for a change. Like someone else said earlier, if you don't think a wall will stop most of them, leave your car and house doors wide open when you're not there and tear down every fence you have. Because those forms of security can be defeated so why have them at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bpa556]

Preach it brother. You obviously know more about the history of this mess than anyone I've found. Why do most folks get stuck going down this rabbit hole of a wall? I don't even hear it brought up by the "conservative" mouthpieces.

Most Americans don't stop to think about WHY these people are coming. It's not because they CAN'T make a living at home, it's because they can make a better living here. Folks see a problem and want it fixed without any consideration to what caused it in the first place.

The knee-jerk, almost instinctual, "solution" is a barrier. It's a big, imposing, physical symbol of action against a problem of movement. Barriers, by their very nature, prevent/divert movement.

These aliens are not livestock. They are human beings with cognitive abilities comensurate to the title. They will get over/under/thru or around a wall if there is a prize on the other side. No prize, no problem.

[TX_Kevin]

"That's thinkin with your dipstick Jimmy!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj5ms9PJDNY

I would not recommend that you hit me with a dipstick Jimmy. It would not go well for you.

[Encinal]

We can't keep coons out of corn feeders.

What's a wall gonna do?