FOC does it matter

[enewman]

I have no idea what my FOC is. I dont think the dead critters know either. Ill measure arrows next time I shoot so I can tell the next one I guess

Haha this is just info for people that care. Have a good season

[muddyfuzzy]

What people are finding out is that arrows can be built with higher FOC that are mid weight; 450-550 grain arrows, that will actually penetrate like an arrow with higher mass weight. This allows people that are concerned about speed/trajectory to still benefit from a build with superior penetration without sacrificing the later. I have seen a threshold shift over the last 24 months where a lot of guys are stepping out of their comfort zones of 350-400' grain builds. The response is pretty overwhelming in favor of the FOC/weight increase compared to previous setup's. Not only do they get the added benefit of increased penetration but they also experience in some cases a quieter bow, less hand shock and a more forgiving arrow.

It's a good table and a great representation of the benefits of increased FOC. From a data collection standpoint I would have much preferred the mass weight to be equal with the only variable being the %FOC but that's hard to do. But if you take a step back and look at the underlying trend you will see what Eric is speaking to.


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[Quackerbox]

Haha this is just info for people that care. Have a good season

I hope so.

I get it, and I understand the concern but I also think sometimes some folks over think stuff. Those may be the guys who change set ups every year cause something new came out and want a few extra FPS. Im also of the thought of being proficient with whatever you carry to the stand. Make an ethical shot and the rest will fall into place. Prolly the same thought and reason why Ive only hunted 4 bows in my roughly 30 years of bow hunting. Year 3 with my Helim and still love it. Maybe in a couple years I'll hand it down and get a new one

[enewman]

Here is another benifit to building foc. It's in penetration on impact.

And muddyfuzzy is correct. We are seeing arrows in the 475 gn range efoc. Out penetrate a 650 gn arrow with low foc.

[Slick8]

I'm running a fairly light arrow of 386 grains from a .400 spine Black Eagle with a 125 grain head and a nocturnal on the rear. That's giving me about around 17% if memory serves and running 300 FPS out of a 29 inch DNA at 60 pounds.

This is a WT set up. If I were to go after larger game or out west where shots were expected to be long I would step up to a .350 spine with a 50 grain insert and keep the 125 Ramcat up front.

Might even max my bow out at 65 pounds but don't really think it would make a difference.

[12RingKing]

Good information. Makes me want to build me some new arrows.

[enewman]

Here's another comparison of what foc did. Both arrows same weight. Same momentum. But different penetration. Only difference is foc

[tradtiger]

Thanks for posting. First thing that should jump out is that all of those arrows are heavy and shot from only a 40-lb draw bow, AND they all went through a rib on the front side of an Asian buffalo.

As you noted, the 3-grain difference between arrows 1 and 2 is hardly any difference at all, yet the average penetration between those shots is about double (14" vs. 7") in favor of the 31.9% FOC vs. the 11.8% FOC arrows.

Now compare the moderately higher FOC arrow #1, which is also considerably lighter at 620 grains to the #4 arrow, with 723 grains and 25.7% FOC. Here is the key point: the extra 6.2% FOC of arrow #1 results in over 4 inches greater average penetration depth -- 14" vs less than 10".

In other words, you can shoot a 100-grain lighter -- no doubt, faster -- arrow from a 40-lb bow (arrow 1) and get almost a third better penetration than using a heavier -- slower -- arrow (arrow 4) IF your FOC is 31.9%. It's not stated in this graph, but I believe we're looking at the difference between Extreme FOC and Ultra Extreme FOC.

[enewman]

I hope so.

I get it, and I understand the concern but I also think sometimes some folks over think stuff. Those may be the guys who change set ups every year cause something new came out and want a few extra FPS. Im also of the thought of being proficient with whatever you carry to the stand. Make an ethical shot and the rest will fall into place. Prolly the same thought and reason why Ive only hunted 4 bows in my roughly 30 years of bow hunting. Year 3 with my Helim and still love it. Maybe in a couple years I'll hand it down and get a new one

With out a doubt. I over think everything. But just how I am. But I see more and more lost animals every year. Most is prolly lack of practice. But part of it has to do with market. Fast and light. That is fine for some. But low pound short draw don't get that benifit. But yet there still tought light and fast. And they don't understand why they loose animals. So they can look at just pure mass. But then it's in there head its to slow. So now what. Look at foc. You can build an arrow that is moderate in weight with foc and have great penetration.

This type of information is not for everyone. Hard to tell some one that a efoc is what you need when they have been killing with low foc.

[BURTONboy]

I have a question for y'all. My wifes setup for instance. She shoots a 55# mathews Z7, I have no idea of speed and i'm not sure of total finish weight on her setup. But she shoots Easton Axis n-fused 500 spine arrows and she has around a 27" draw, maybe even 26.5" and shoots 100gr broadheads. My question is, would it benefit to add say 25gr inserts to this arrow, or shoot a lighter arrow and maybe add 50gr inserts (or even 25gr), for more penetration? I know heavier helps, but at some point in longer distances speed is a factor.

I also know there's a lot of missing information here that would probably help answer the question, I just don't have the missing info right now. Thinking in my head i'm almost wanting to set her up with a lighter arrow that has some added weight up front to help penetration out some. Only reason all this comes to mind is hunting bigger animals then whitetails, like say axis for instance.

[enewman]

Thanks for posting. First thing that should jump out is that all of those arrows are heavy and shot from only a 40-lb draw bow, AND they all went through a rib on the front side of an Asian buffalo.

As you noted, the 3-grain difference between arrows 1 and 2 is hardly any difference at all, yet the average penetration between those shots is about double (14" vs. 7") in favor of the 31.9% FOC vs. the 11.8% FOC arrows.

Now compare the moderately higher FOC arrow #1, which is also considerably lighter at 620 grains to the #4 arrow, with 723 grains and 25.7% FOC. Here is the key point: the extra 6.2% FOC of arrow #1 results in over 4 inches greater average penetration depth -- 14" vs less than 10".

In other words, you can shoot a 100-grain lighter -- no doubt, faster -- arrow from a 40-lb bow (arrow 1) and get almost a third better penetration than using a heavier -- slower -- arrow (arrow 4) IF your FOC is 31.9%. It's not stated in this graph, but I believe we're looking at the difference between Extreme FOC and Ultra Extreme FOC.

Your right. I didn't see that but uefoc is 30% and up.

[Quackerbox]

I have a question for y'all. My wifes setup for instance. She shoots a 55# mathews Z7, I have no idea of speed and i'm not sure of total finish weight on her setup. But she shoots Easton Axis n-fused 500 spine arrows and she has around a 27" draw, maybe even 26.5" and shoots 100gr broadheads. My question is, would it benefit to add say 25gr inserts to this arrow, or shoot a lighter arrow and maybe add 50gr inserts (or even 25gr), for more penetration? I know heavier helps, but at some point in longer distances speed is a factor.

I also know there's a lot of missing information here that would probably help answer the question, I just don't have the missing info right now. Thinking in my head i'm almost wanting to set her up with a lighter arrow that has some added weight up front to help penetration out some. Only reason all this comes to mind is hunting bigger animals then whitetails, like say axis for instance.

Watchin responses to this. My wife is also 26.5" 500 spine, 100 grain heads and 52 lbs from her Jewel. The techno hunt at bowzone had her at 186-192 fps last weekend. So far her only lost animal is do to a poor shot. The rest she has missed all together....

[SwampRabbit]

Hey Eric... you know what this chart is really telling you?


You should ditch the cams and start shooting a stickbow

[Landrover]

I am happy to read that folks actually are understanding the IMPORTANCE of FOC/WEIGHT/MOMENTEUM and not all that KE silliness. I am shooting about 615 total arrow weight with about 18 FOC.........want it to be about 22........lol!!!

[enewman]

This is not as easy a question to answer. So let's not look at what has been done with light arrows let's look at how to build a better arrow.

First I would look at a program. This way you know where to start with correct spine. Then I would look at what is max distance they will hunt at. Say 20 yards. Then I would look at what weight she still has good trajectory at 25 yards. Little fudge room. Let's say that comes out at 475 gn. Then this is where the program comes back in. Build an arrow at that weight with as much foc as posible. This means a good light gpi arrow. Black eagles some of the best arrows for this. This is where muddyfuzzy comes into play. He's builds the best.

That is a fast responce. I think foc and mass is how to build good arrows. But I think foc is way more important then just mass.