The Real KUIU

[TWP]

Deers and Beers, easy fella, did the Rokslide folks get you fired up??? Don't mention anything about KUIU over there, they will kill you with their trekking poles and bivy sacks. ha ha ha ha

Of this this gear isn't made for stand hunting, some nice fleece with windstopper from Academy, Cabelas, your Mom's closet, they all work great!

As for KUIU, I got to reading Jason's blog after Gore bought Sitka back in 2009 or 2010, and his ideas were great concerning his business model. I spoke to him on the phone several times when I owned a company in Afghanistan doing hot weather testing, but he was looking for a company with 50 employees and we only had 9-10. Super nice guy on the phone, but have never personally met or hunted with him. I bought the first run of Attack Pants and Guide Jacket, great stuff, no complaints. Then things got a little crazy, or anyone who has started and run a company, you may or may not know of growing pains, but I can only imagine how crazy it was, and the lack of inventory forced me to go somewhere else.

I personally only use First Lite for mountain hunts, obviously you can wear shorts and flip flops and drink beer in your whitetail blind. I also own a Kifaru pack and can tell you that there is a huge difference in quality but also in price when it comes down to packs. I have spent several days under their newest frame and suspension with up to 120lbs during training and no complaints, but training isn't hunting either.

Use what you want, it is all awesome. I killed my first two elk with Cabela's Microtex clothing, high school football under armour, a 10 lb tent and kelty cache hauler.

Also, if you are too heavy for your height, make sure to size up for most of these companies. The "athletic cut" may be a little restrictive now.

[76aggie]

I have equipment from First Lite, Kuiu and Sitka. I leave in 5 weeks for the Brooks Range in AK. and I have complete faith in my gear. Most everything I will have is First Lite. For my 2 cents it is great stuff. I will have a Sitka Kelvin Jacket as well as a Kelvin Vest. The only Kuiu I am bringing are their glassing Mitts. I have not tried them out yet and am anxious to see how they perform. All this being said, it comes down to Ford VS Chevy in my opinion. If you like it, use it. I hunted for many years here in Texas with WalMart camo and blue jeans and it generally worked out well for me. As I got older, got kids out of college and out of the house, I found I could spend a bit more for quality gear and go on hunts I could not go on as a younger man. When you are out in the boonies and your only shelter is a tent and your rain gear, you have to use the best you can. If you have a warm cabin to get back to each night, such products may not be necessary. These are niche products and not necessary for all hunting experiences.

[bphillips]

Deers and Beers, easy fella, did the Rokslide folks get you fired up??? Don't mention anything about KUIU over there, they will kill you with their trekking poles and bivy sacks. ha ha ha ha

Of this this gear isn't made for stand hunting, some nice fleece with windstopper from Academy, Cabelas, your Mom's closet, they all work great!

As for KUIU, I got to reading Jason's blog after Gore bought Sitka back in 2009 or 2010, and his ideas were great concerning his business model. I spoke to him on the phone several times when I owned a company in Afghanistan doing hot weather testing, but he was looking for a company with 50 employees and we only had 9-10. Super nice guy on the phone, but have never personally met or hunted with him. I bought the first run of Attack Pants and Guide Jacket, great stuff, no complaints. Then things got a little crazy, or anyone who has started and run a company, you may or may not know of growing pains, but I can only imagine how crazy it was, and the lack of inventory forced me to go somewhere else.

I personally only use First Lite for mountain hunts, obviously you can wear shorts and flip flops and drink beer in your whitetail blind. I also own a Kifaru pack and can tell you that there is a huge difference in quality but also in price when it comes down to packs. I have spent several days under their newest frame and suspension with up to 120lbs during training and no complaints, but training isn't hunting either.

Use what you want, it is all awesome. I killed my first two elk with Cabela's Microtex clothing, high school football under armour, a 10 lb tent and kelty cache hauler.

Also, if you are too heavy for your height, make sure to size up for most of these companies. The "athletic cut" may be a little restrictive now.

Inventory is the number 1 gripe. Yea it's "affordable" IF you can get what you need

[Deers & Beers]

Inventory is the number 1 gripe. Yea it's "affordable" IF you can get what you need

I think it's gotten better over the years, but they've just burned way to many bridges with me and alot of other hunters.

I have a couple pieces of Sitka gear. I think they are great. I just can't afford most their gear lol. It's so **** expensive..

First Lite is just a perfect compromise with great service/ethics.

[Shane]

y'all should see the big canada deer i killed in 20 degree weather wearing russell gear from academy. The deer was laughing at my cheap camo so i busted him. The buck was like....look at this fool. Kuiu gloves and beanie cost more than his whole set up including them boots. And i was all like, kapow.

Classic.

[BowVista]

It's funny to me how people criticize KUIU for their prices but praise First Lite. In my experience, the prices are VERY similar, with KUIU having far more options that are often less expensive even than FL.

I used to be a gear junkie, but now I just wear what is comfortable and doesn't tear up. 90% of this type argument bogs down in personal preference or emotion, when it's all basically pretty similar.

For the record, I own (or have owned) every brand discussed here (including Russell gear from Academy).

[Landrover]

There's another startup called Pnuma, that just went live on the net. They claim to have the most breathable fabric, and their prices are comparable to Fist Lite and Kuiu. More competition is a good thing. I don't have any of the above brands, mostly because I don't hunt where they're necessary, so I'm not promoting anything.

I am on their website right now. They have 4 full page ads in my Bowhunting World magazine. Really like what I am reading honestly about the breathability.

Nice thread, if you can afford it. Their conservation doesn't make it any cheaper

I hear ya but without supporting conservation efforts "game over" for whatever you like to hunt! I am thankful companies are committed to securing what we do.

[txdukklr]

I appreciate the response and actually Jason is very responsive on social media. I just bought full gear from them as I plan to do more mountain types of hunting vs just stand for the next few years (more if I can get and keep my physical fitness at a high level)

saying kuiu is high priced compared to first lite and sitka is insane its literally half the cost.

No one has to buy anything they don't like, believe in or doesn't perform for them. Kuiu is a great product as far as I'm concerned and thats from using it.

[Sneaky]

You will know the difference on a mountain hunt

This x 1,000,000

There is absolutely no comparison between department store camo, and high end, purpose build gear like Sitka. I will never go back to cheapo camo, and just buy most of my Sitka gear used so it's easier on the wallet.

My next backpack will be a Kifaru, also.

[Aggie PhD]

No one has to buy anything they don't like, believe in or doesn't perform for them.

end of thread (and every single yeti thread)........

[Texans42]

My problem with Kuiu is less about who they support (although I've heard bad stories about this, like SFW & Don P.) and more about their business and moral ethics.

I bought Kuiu when they 1st started and only had a couple products for sale. I bought into the whole idea of innovation and transparency and more than anything that it was made in North America and not China like every other company.

Then, one thing after another happened.

1) My first pair of Attack pants I was promised a 1-2 month wait. At 11 months, I cancelled my order.

2) When I received my 2nd batch of clothing I noticed all the tags said “made in China”. When I called and asked them “what the hell?” they denied it and said it was a mistake. When this happened to other people the word started to get out. A couple weeks later Kuiu had a big announcement “We’ve moved to China, and it’s better for you! It will be cheaper with more quality control and less wait time!”. Of course, the prices and the wait time stayed the same. Not sure how moving from Canada to China would INCREASE your QA/QC?

3) Kuiu got caught deleting any post whatsoever on their forum that said anything negative about their products (including mine), whether something had broken or there was a QA/QC problem or anything. Weeks later they claimed an intern did it and was fired. Transparent?

4) Kuiu was a sponsor of my favorite hunting site (besides the green screen) Rokslide. The owner of Rokslide was doing a Tongue and Cheek review of all their sponsors backpacks by throwing them off a cliff to see how well they would hold up as a joke. Kuiu called the owner and said that he was not allowed to throw his backpack off a cliff and he was pulling his sponsorship immediately. He then proceeded to do his own “cliff test” which was literally a “mild hill test” and put it on Youtube. I guess he wanted to do it as an FU to Rokslide but just came off to everyone as a ****. Quick Note: It didn’t survive the “mild hill test”

5) Kuiu’s specs on a lot of their gear is way off, they pretty much just make them up. For example, the breathability on their rain gear doesn’t take into account the camo pattern imprinted on them, which makes the numbers much lower. There was actually an independent test done comparing Kuiu and rain gears breathability to other brands and let’s just say it was less than half of what they claim. Unfortunately, the person/company that did the test decided not to publish it but I did get to witness the results first hand. Another example is their tent weights. Don’t expect them to weigh what’s on their website, they weigh them barebones with no stakes, guylines, anything. When they started coming in the mail half a pound over weight, people got ******.

6) There’s nothing very transparent or innovative about Kuiu. If you research the materials that they are using, it’s been done for 15-20 years! All he did was take mountaineering gear and put camo on it. Nothing new at all. If you start looking into some of the other big name brands you’ll realize Kuiu is way behind on technology. Besides technology, they just steal everyone else’s design. Do their tents look familiar? That’s because they are a 100% replica of Big Sky tents. Do their sleeping bags look familiar? They are a complete replica of Marmot Plasma bags.

7) They hardly test any of their gear at all, that's why they "update" their packs twice a year. They do one Alaskan Sheep hunt with their prototype gear, take a ton of pics, then that’s it. The consumers are the Guinea Pigs, not the company. Their first batch of tents leaked heavily. They should be happy they didn’t kill anybody. If you ask them about it they won’t say anything, they were quickly removed from the website and basically Kuiu pretends like they never existed.

8) Their packs are a joke. They’re so proud that they made the 1st ever carbon fiber pack. It’s been done for 20 years! It just sucks as a pack frame so no one actually produced it! Kifaru played around with it in the 90s and came to the conclusion that it doesn't hold up at all.. It’s fine for 30-40 pounds of weight. If you need to pack Elk meat out miles in the mountains, you’re screwed! See if you can find a pic of an Elk quarter sticking out of one? I bet you'll see quite a few pics of cracked carbon frames though.. Doubt you'll find any cracked frame pics from Kifaru, Stone Glacer, or Exo Mountain..

I could keep writing but my hand hurts. There’s no reason to buy anything from Kuiu with all the good brands that are out there now.

I think this is hilarious, it falls in line with what the OP just stated...

Kifaru didn't play around with the same carbon fiber in 90's. If they did they played with different laminates and not the same matting and resign as the carbon fiber today, comparing carbon fiber today to 26 years ago is like comparing cell phones from the same time frame. Any one knows if you took a carbon fiber bow and toss it off a cliff it going to crack. Not exactly rocket science. But yet people use carbon fiber bows right and left. Kifaru and SG don't produce carbon fiber packs they put carbon stays in them. On the duplex you can get a wood carbon liaminate stay. You don't want to see what happens when wood in a carbon wood laminate gets wet.

The stealing design is even funnier, Big part of Sikta is still mountain hardware designs. I bet you have no problem buying Academy Megellan fishing shirts though.... At the same time what makes the shirt? The fabric or the cut? There are 20 bags on the market that have same cut at Kifaru's slick bag, so I guess they knocked it off also.

Jason did the entire outdoor clothing industry a HUGE favor, they helped break the BS business practices of Gore, (owner of Sitka). Gore has flat out lied and done everything they can to prevent emerging fabric companies from entering the market, hence the Federal Trade Commission involvement.

I like Aron, he has done the industry a ton of good, with that said I don't blame Jason for pulling Rokslide sponsorship. Aron not an owner anymore, it was hard as a reader to feel like you are getting an unbiased opinion on a product when he manages Kifaru and at the time was helping keptek out. I think Aaron is very unbiased for the most part. With that said I was disappointed in his gritty podcast with Sitka, he clearly showed bias in that pod cast.

Kuiu has brought a very good and very technical product to the market place. In fact many companies have taken note at the success and are reaching hard to emerging techincal fabric companies to help them enter into the market.

Firstlite has always been a merino company up until three years ago. Their partnership with Cocona is a perfect example of what I speak of.

Successes with Cocona, Toray etc are what we the consumer needed. But I get it your a Gore fan boy, same company that's done everything in thier power to keep competing technologies that are actually better out of the market.

Guys like you are what have ruined great gear sites. For the record I have Kuiu, firstlite, EXO, Kifaru, Mountain hardwear and even prana gear.

[Texans42]

I am on their website right now. They have 4 full page ads in my Bowhunting World magazine. Really like what I am reading honestly about the breathability.

I hear ya but without supporting conservation efforts "game over" for whatever you like to hunt! I am thankful companies are committed to securing what we do.

They need to list thier weights. Their parent company has made some pretty far out claims before. Looks like they partnered with Schoeller fabric, very good company. The breath ability is very interesting, but I find it hard to believe when there was no mention of it at OR.

[bullshark]

Is First Lite worth it? Their stuff looks well made and I was considering their wool. Definitely not gonna get kuiu after reading your review

I believe it is. I own a lot of their products in asat or black for ground blind hunting

[Traildust]

This is why I buy Cabelas stuff...no drama!

LOL

[Poco]

I think this is hilarious, it falls in line with what the OP just stated...

Kifaru didn't play around with the same carbon fiber in 90's. If they did they played with different laminates and not the same matting and resign as the carbon fiber today, comparing carbon fiber today to 26 years ago is like comparing cell phones from the same time frame. Any one knows if you took a carbon fiber bow and toss it off a cliff it going to crack. Not exactly rocket science. But yet people use carbon fiber bows right and left. Kifaru and SG don't produce carbon fiber packs they put carbon stays in them. On the duplex you can get a wood carbon liaminate stay. You don't want to see what happens when wood in a carbon wood laminate gets wet.

The stealing design is even funnier, Big part of Sikta is still mountain hardware designs. I bet you have no problem buying Academy Megellan fishing shirts though.... At the same time what makes the shirt? The fabric or the cut? There are 20 bags on the market that have same cut at Kifaru's slick bag, so I guess they knocked it off also.

Jason did the entire outdoor clothing industry a HUGE favor, they helped break the BS business practices of Gore, (owner of Sitka). Gore has flat out lied and done everything they can to prevent emerging fabric companies from entering the market, hence the Federal Trade Commission involvement.

I like Aron, he has done the industry a ton of good, with that said I don't blame Jason for pulling Rokslide sponsorship. Aron not an owner anymore, it was hard as a reader to feel like you are getting an unbiased opinion on a product when he manages Kifaru and at the time was helping keptek out. I think Aaron is very unbiased for the most part. With that said I was disappointed in his gritty podcast with Sitka, he clearly showed bias in that pod cast.

Kuiu has brought a very good and very technical product to the market place. In fact many companies have taken note at the success and are reaching hard to emerging techincal fabric companies to help them enter into the market.

Firstlite has always been a merino company up until three years ago. Their partnership with Cocona is a perfect example of what I speak of.

Successes with Cocona, Toray etc are what we the consumer needed. But I get it your a Gore fan boy, same company that's done everything in thier power to keep competing technologies that are actually better out of the market.

Guys like you are what have ruined great gear sites. For the record I have Kuiu, firstlite, EXO, Kifaru, Mountain hardwear and even prana gear.

Very good post.

Ray


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