Once saved-always saved vs Apostasy

[TXBlkCld]

K86,
I read your whole post and am still not sure where you stand. So do you believe in Hell? Do you believe in Calvinism or Arminianism or both or neither? I'm confused as to what you were getting at. I think I could answer and respond to a couple of the remarks you made but they may have been rhetorical. Please clarify. Thanks.

[Kirby86]

I guess I shouldve clarified that on Hell. I do believe that its very real, and that people without Christ are definitely headed there.

I would have to say that I would lean more towards Calvinism, but I run into problems in regards to limited atonement being that Christ died only for the elect. And no, I am not saying that everyone is going to heaven. There are some specific verses, such as John 1:9. Atonement is definitely not unlimited however. Take Hebrews 2:9, John 1:29, and 1 Timothy 2:5-6.

[AZ&F'sDaddy]

I truly, truly believe all of Romans 9. And I do believe in predestination because the bible says that we are predestined...[/I][/B]

We must not view Romans 9 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans. Paul was offering a revisioning of all things Jewish. For example, in Romans 4, he declared that the decendents of Abraham included believing Gentiles. He also declared that the promise to Abraham was not merely the small, geographical area of Israel, but was now the world. He also declared that the Torah had made things worse and that the Torah had become a law of sin and death (Romans 5. All of that needs explaining which I will not get into). What the majority of physical Jews did not get was that the Torah had pointed to Jesus and to the inclusion of all races. And when God called them to obedience of those things, they stumbled. They were "hardened." A Jew might protest all of this by saying that this was unfair, appealing to the Torah and their understanding of the Torah; by saying that God had been unfaithful. But Paul responds by explaining that this method of election that he'd proposed was not new. In fact, this concept of election was God's well-established method. But we should not understand election to be predetermined by God; not predetermined in that it is by coercion or against a person's will. Israel's election was to a unique relationship. Their election was not to salvation. There are plenty of examples in the OT of non-Jews being in a right, salvific relationship with God despite NOT being practicing Jews. There are plenty of examples, too, of Jews not being in a right, salvific relationship with God despite being Jews.
The elect now become the Elect only when they, by faith, accept Jesus. This is now God's chosen method of election and it is open to everyone. That is Paul's point. He is NOT talking about God predetermining each individual's eternal destination. That would make no sense in the light of Paul's overall goal in the letter to the Romans.

Likewise, Ephesians is not talking about the the individual's eternal destination. Paul is talking about the CHURCH corporately. God predetermined the Church. The Church was not an after-thought or "plan B" when "plan A" didn't work. God eternally purposed the Church. Individual predestination is nowhere in view in Ephesians 1.

[Dale]

Romans 10:10
"For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."

There are many, many more references to being saved, but for the sake of answering your question briefly, here are a couple of references to people who "are saved" or "have been saved".

Acts 15:11
Romans 8:24
1 Corinthians 1:18
1 Corinthians 15:2
2 Corinthians 2:15
Ephesians 2:5
Ephesians 2:8
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 3:5
Hebrews 10:39

I guess maybe I did not state my thought very well( the first night shift is rough). I realize the word saved is used in The Book.

What Im asking is this, is one saved in the here and now or is one working toward Salvation?

If you are saved already what is the point of continueing to ask for forgiveness of sin. All are sinners there is no righteous man no not one. Even the believer that has given his life, lock stock and barrel to Christ is still a sinner and must still lay his sins at the foot of the cross. No where does it say Give your life to God and you are saved forever more and that no further effort is required. It does not say that "you" can not turn away from it and reject the gift. It does however say that no one else can take it from you or keep you from it.

I believe you must continue the Race toward salvation, living for God to the best of your knowledge and asking for forgiveness of you sins daily, for you may die tomorrow. You cant just say "Im saved and that is it".

To me Salvation is not something I possess here in this world, it is a goal I must reach. And I must keep holding God's hand as he lead me towards that goal.

[AZ&F'sDaddy]

I guess maybe I did not state my thought very well( the first night shift is rough). I realize the word saved is used in The Book.

What Im asking is this, is one saved in the here and now or is one working toward Salvation?

If you are saved already what is the point of continueing to ask for forgiveness of sin. All are sinners there is no righteous man no not one. Even the believer that has given his life, lock stock and barrel to Christ is still a sinner and must still lay his sins at the foot of the cross. No where does it say Give your life to God and you are saved forever more and that no further effort is required. It does not say that "you" can not turn away from it and reject the gift. It does however say that no one else can take it from you or keep you from it.

I believe you must continue the Race toward salvation, living for God to the best of your knowledge and asking for forgiveness of you sins daily, for you may die tomorrow. You cant just say "Im saved and that is it".

To me Salvation is not something I possess here in this world, it is a goal I must reach. And I must keep holding God's hand as he lead me towards that goal.

The NT speaks of salvation as a past experience, a presently-ongoing experience, and a future experience. And, as you are saying, no one in scripture is ever depicted as being in a right standing before God without a God-honoring relationship with him.

[Playa]

Taking a little break from the office to exercise my body... Thought about this thread and exercising my faith daily!
Quote of the day:

[ATTACH]451071[/ATTACH]

Not far enough into my walk with The Lord to be quoting from the Bible however I do feel like "I get it" and encourage others like myself to post your thoughts even if you can't quote the Bible... There are signs everywhere in your day to day life that often times jump out at you... Kinda like the pic I posted.

Mitch,

Thanks for posting this, it's a great reminder that we are on a journey. It's also evidence that you are pursuing God and seeking Him.

Keep digging in the Word. It's amazing how much scripture you can learn and recall when the Spirit moves within you.

[Ron]

Awesome thread. I've read all the post and it gives me comfort in my journey.

[Codie]

Taking a little break from the office to exercise my body... Thought about this thread and exercising my faith daily!
Quote of the day:

[ATTACH]451071[/ATTACH]

Not far enough into my walk with The Lord to be quoting from the Bible however I do feel like "I get it" and encourage others like myself to post your thoughts even if you can't quote the Bible... There are signs everywhere in your day to day life that often times jump out at you... Kinda like the pic I posted.

Unforunately and regretfully I myself do not have the knowledge of the bible that I should and tend to find the lord speaking to me through everyday signs and such just as you are posting here. Before my walk with christ I would have never looked at that sign in the gym and thought anything of it and now when I see it I can feel it go to my heart and immediatley know that the sign is meant to mean something MORE for me than what it was put there for. Signs that the lord place in front of my face on a daily basis are something that will always do nothing but confirm my faith that he has me right in the palm of his hand and I don't guess there is anything else that makes me feel more free than that. Thanks for posting that up Mitch