What is a Fire Fighter worth?

[Lethal Injection]

And you make the suggestion to go back to school to become something I don't want to be? That's amusing.

Then deal with the low pay and benefits, I am sure I am not the only one doing a job that was not in the life plan but it is what takes care of the wife and kids.

[Ol Thumper]

Then deal with the low pay and benefits, I am sure I am not the only one doing a job that was not in the life plan but it is what takes care of the wife and kids.

Bingo,,,

[76truck]

I go to work happy to have a job and to see my crew in the morning and when leaving. Other than that.... well you know the rest. Trust me, I want to make as much a deck foreman or even a roughneck. I though about it when a buddy of mine left the fire service to do it. But, at the end of the day, he is not happy and hates his job.

If your crew can't keep you happy then I'd say leave, go to another station or hell, find a new department.

As far as no respect from the citizens, well let's see, been shot at, backed into a corner, actual hand to hand fight, and just last week a fella decked my captain in the face and drew blood and hit one of the other guys before we got a hold of him.

My senior captain was actually shot in the leg. Now mind you, these people called us for help and for what ever reason they want to throw down with us. It will always be this way. No matter where ya go. When they REALLY do need us, that brief moment in time is a reward. It doesn't matter if it's a fire, EMS, or a rescue. Just reviving a person and seeing the family so greatful is good enough. I don't need a thank you or a pat on the back or one of those ridiculous medals for doing the job. It's what we do, we wipe our brow and get the next few BS calls out of the way till we go home.

One thing I read bothers me. It was something about education. Almost everyone I work with is college educated. One guy was a computer programmer. One was a consultant for Apache, another has a degree in geology. Some friends of mine are lawyers on the side. So if they are inciting firemen are under educated or just plain lazy to go to college, then that is wrong. Not even close to true. I have also worked with some well college educated firemen who also happen to be some of the dumbest firemen I have met. So I see no validation here.

In the end, everyone will swing there education, there job, what they do, how much they make, how amazing they are.....etc, etc.... When you stop caring about other people but your family and your family at the station, then maybe you can feel some relief. Until then, waiting on a pat on the back or the mayor to give you more money, your just gonna be a stressed out, underpaid, disgruntled, crusty fireman.

[flywise]

TO many people in public service who want Doctor pay. My guys heard last week that our city had a 16% increase in revenue and they all want a piece. Well I asked, what was the 16% based on, last years revenue? Well last years revenue was a 20% drop from the year before so this 16% hasn't even got us even where we were before the economic slow down which means, there still isn't any money.
The absolute best thing for public employees would be to get rid of all public employee unions Then maybe people would not have some union president in their ear telling them they are getting the shaft.

[casilva43]

Sorry to bring up an old arguement guys, but I just heard on the local news why so many firefighters, and really any city employees in any department, are so agravated. Our city counsel is voting tomorrow evening on giving the city manager a "retention bonus" of 25k for the next three years, when no other city employee has gotten a raise in the last 4 years. Now, tell me how that's right. I'm not complaining as a firefighter, but rather as a city employee. When one guy gets over 10% bonus for the next three years, while the rest of us have "tightened our belts" for the last 4, and likely for the next several as well, under the lie that "We just don't have the money guys." If you don't have the money to give the rest of us a raise, how do you have the money to give yourself a raise? Because you're the one that writes the budget? YEP!

Apply for the city manager's job

[cjkozik]

TO many people in public service who want Doctor pay. My guys heard last week that our city had a 16% increase in revenue and they all want a piece. Well I asked, what was the 16% based on, last years revenue? Well last years revenue was a 20% drop from the year before so this 16% hasn't even got us even where we were before the economic slow down which means, there still isn't any money.
The absolute best thing for public employees would be to get rid of all public employee unions Then maybe people would not have some union president in their ear telling them they are getting the shaft.

Dude, really Im a firefighter and have been one for a long time, I'm sorry youve had some bad experience with unions but just because you are apart of the IAFF union does not make you a bad person or do we have the its all about me attitude. The city I work for does not recognize us and probably never will. We are not civil service nor do we have collecting barganing. We (the union), however have called attention to serveral items in the past to the appropiate peoples attention, who could actually do something about it or change the way we do things for safety concerns. I like you chose this career not for the money, but now that I have a family and kids to support and have a vested interest in seeing them grow up and suceed in life. I will not tolerate some pencil pushing numbers cruncher telling me how to do my job or what equipment will do the job for me. Its tuff times for everyone right now, but we all have to join together and fight for whats right and not kill people along the way..

[FIRE59]

TO many people in public service who want Doctor pay. My guys heard last week that our city had a 16% increase in revenue and they all want a piece. Well I asked, what was the 16% based on, last years revenue? Well last years revenue was a 20% drop from the year before so this 16% hasn't even got us even where we were before the economic slow down which means, there still isn't any money.
The absolute best thing for public employees would be to get rid of all public employee unions Then maybe people would not have some union president in their ear telling them they are getting the shaft.

Dude relax with all the union bashing. Texas is a right to work state, they can fire you at will. We all know that. You made some great points about the revenue. You obviously work in a dept that has a strong association. I'm sure you have seen some of the benefits of their work. I do agree that there are some association officers out there that are always telling everyone they are getting the shaft, and that can cause low morale. But you and I both know that if we don't speak up for our vested interest when it comes to our careers, others will use you as stepping stones. Whether its a group of employees with the same common goal, or a formalized association that represents the majority of the members of that department. Please don't turn this into a union bashing thread, that is not my intentions. Just thought I would give a different perspective.

[FIRE59]

Dude, really Im a firefighter and have been one for a long time, I'm sorry youve had some bad experience with unions but just because you are apart of the IAFF union does not make you a bad person or do we have the its all about me attitude. The city I work for does not recognize us and probably never will. We are not civil service nor do we have collecting barganing. We (the union), however have called attention to serveral items in the past to the appropiate peoples attention, who could actually do something about it or change the way we do things for safety concerns. I like you chose this career not for the money, but now that I have a family and kids to support and have a vested interest in seeing them grow up and suceed in life. I will not tolerate some pencil pushing numbers cruncher telling me how to do my job or what equipment will do the job for me. Its tuff times for everyone right now, but we all have to join together and fight for whats right and not kill people along the way..

Well said you beat me to it!!

[flywise]

Dude, really Im a firefighter and have been one for a long time, I'm sorry youve had some bad experience with unions but just because you are apart of the IAFF union does not make you a bad person or do we have the its all about me attitude. The city I work for does not recognize us and probably never will. We are not civil service nor do we have collecting barganing. We (the union), however have called attention to serveral items in the past to the appropiate peoples attention, who could actually do something about it or change the way we do things for safety concerns. I like you chose this career not for the money, but now that I have a family and kids to support and have a vested interest in seeing them grow up and suceed in life. I will not tolerate some pencil pushing numbers cruncher telling me how to do my job or what equipment will do the job for me. Its tuff times for everyone right now, but we all have to join together and fight for whats right and not kill people along the way..

Never said people in unions are bad people, just said that if there were no union guy putting out the notion that the membership is some how getting the shaft that the work place would be a much better place to work.
My city has never done one thing to shaft me or the fire department but yet the State IAFF keeps telling our local that we are getting the shaft, and as a result the members of our local constantly gripe and whine about getting this so called shaft. It's my opinion that, 99% of the griping that goes on by firefighters is done out of ignorance. They hear the cities revenue is up so they want some of it. Never taking the time to actually find out where this money BY LAW has to go. I have taken some time to understand why and how my city allocates it revenue. If more people would go to the city managers office/ or finance and ask how all money is allocated you just might understand why you don't get a raise every time you want one.

[cjkozik]

Your problem is you think everyone is guilty by association. I'm sorry but your union reps are elected, if you don't like what their doing don't elect them, but I'm sure your not in the union. So with that being said, be careful , how you attack unions and other firefighters. We are not all guilty by association. Also,You may be surrounded by a bunch of ignorant co-workers and I'm glad your department has people like you in it to educate them on the proper aspects of balancing the budgets and how to allocate money that is spent.. Just saying you may want to look at the big picture here and not focus on your dept. This is a forum with firefighters from all over Texas not ones that are just in your dept.

[flywise]

Your problem is you think everyone is guilty by association. I'm sorry but your union reps are elected, if you don't like what their doing don't elect them, but I'm sure your not in the union. So with that being said, be careful , how you attack unions and other firefighters. We are not all guilty by association. Also,You may be surrounded by a bunch of ignorant co-workers and I'm glad your department has people like you in it to educate them on the proper aspects of balancing the budgets and how to allocate money that is spent.. Just saying you may want to look at the big picture here and not focus on your dept. This is a forum with firefighters from all over Texas not ones that are just in your dept.

I do not in any way by anything I have written place guilt by association on anyone. I simply state that if it were not for a union leader telling people that they are being screwed the people would never assume they are being screwed on their own. I dont attack unions or the members of unions, I attack their philosophy. And the way I look at the picture IS the big picture and the whole reason I have an opinion different from a union member IS because I look at the big picture. And I know Many FF's on this forum and many in big cities and small cities. I have family current and retired from Austin as well. Fact is, your job as a FF is no different from the parks department, water department, or the human resources department. YOUR a city employee. My biggest complaint is that these 2 city groups FD/PD out of many city groups think they deserve much more pay and benefits the rest of the groups. WHY DO YOU FF/PD OFFICERS BELIEVE THIS?
Well let me answer it for ya.....There is a UNION GUY TELLING YOU THAT YOU DO. Now tell me I'm wrong

[cjkozik]

your wrong

[tvc184]

.............My biggest complaint is that these 2 city groups FD/PD out of many city groups think they deserve much more pay and benefits the rest of the groups. WHY DO YOU FF/PD OFFICERS BELIEVE THIS?
Well let me answer it for ya.....There is a UNION GUY TELLING YOU THAT YOU DO. Now tell me I'm wrong

I thought that I deserved more than some other city groups long before we had a contract. I worked about 9 years without a contract and in fact got sometimes quite a bit more than other city workers. Apparently someone in the city felt the same way and it did not take a contract to do it.

How long and how much money does it take to train a firefighter or police officer? I know that when an officer quits from my department, by the time we hire a replacement, send him/her to the police academy and then go through FTO training, it is at least a year and that is if a person is sitting there waiting to be hire the moment another officer quits. In reality it is more like a year and a half to fully train a police officer after one leaves. Toss in that many require college.

How long does it take to train a sanitation or road crew worker? A year and a half maybe? Do they require college or 6 month academies, many times paid for by the firefighter or officer out of their own pocket?

Does a nurse get paid as much as a doctor?

Yes, I believe that police and firefighters deserve more than other groups in the city as the physical requirements, background, time to train and money spent on them is far different. Now tell me that I am wrong.

[dgilbert]

I have been in the public service business for over 30 years now, I knew what I was getting into when I did, it's been a great career, and I make decent money, no complaining here. City business sux, but there is not to many businesses don't. Reminds me of the people that move near the airport and then complain about the noise. Feel lucky you got a job, it's the pride of being a FF, not the money.

[flywise]

I thought that I deserved more than some other city groups long before we had a contract. I worked about 9 years without a contract and in fact got sometimes quite a bit more than other city workers. Apparently someone in the city felt the same way and it did not take a contract to do it.

How long and how much money does it take to train a firefighter or police officer? I know that when an officer quits from my department, by the time we hire a replacement, send him/her to the police academy and then go through FTO training, it is at least a year and that is if a person is sitting there waiting to be hire the moment another officer quits. In reality it is more like a year and a half to fully train a police officer after one leaves. Toss in that many require college.

How long does it take to train a sanitation or road crew worker? A year and a half maybe? Do they require college or 6 month academies, many times paid for by the firefighter or officer out of their own pocket?

Does a nurse get paid as much as a doctor?

Yes, I believe that police and firefighters deserve more than other groups in the city as the physical requirements, background, time to train and money spent on them is far different. Now tell me that I am wrong.

The highlighted is precisely why the city dosent go around shafting its employees, It cost more to hire a new guy than it does to keep the the ones they have. You are wrong, many of the sanitation or water folks and others have to get educated as well, many take just as many risk's as I do( ever seen a guy in a ditch well above his head fixing sewer pipes? each position requires an amount of training to perform and many require certifications.

Please tell me(and anyone can provide input) when it comes to a contract, what is the main concern? PAy? retirement benefits such as long term health care? Every fire department and PD pays its employees a competative salary which is based on the surrounding area departments of similar size. If they dont pay a competative salary then they loose them and there goes that expense of hiring new folks.