Thoughts on wolves?

[d_e_smith]

yellowstone wildlife population is way down, but that can be a good thing... it's not a good thing if there are several severe winterkills. Wolves are just big wild canines that got wiped out for a reason, animals adapt (like coyotes) or they're gone. I saw no reason to reintroduce them. IMHO, those who pushed to reintro them and support it should personally cut ranchers a check anytime there's a wolf related livestock kill and pay the states for lost revenue from having to cut back on elk/muley tags around the park.

[TexMax]

Lots, but that is immaterial. Is there a study that show why we NEED any wildlife?

My stomach says, yes.

For someone who seemingly knows a 'lot' on the subject you've contributed very little to this thread. Could you post something relevant and factual in nature? While i take interest in both sides (admittedly i know little to nothing about this), your cheap remarks aren't advancing your position.

[JP8]

There a quite a few of the in Eastern NC.. screw em, they will kill all your deer, turkey and small game. I've seen a few shot on farm land.

[JonBoy]

yellowstone wildlife population is way down, but that can be a good thing... it's not a good thing if there are several severe winterkills. Wolves are just big wild canines that got wiped out for a reason, animals adapt (like coyotes) or they're gone. I saw no reason to reintroduce them. IMHO, those who pushed to reintro them and support it should personally cut ranchers a check anytime there's a wolf related livestock kill and pay the states for lost revenue from having to cut back on elk/muley tags around the park.

while I love your Darwinist view I find myself torn b/c I, for once, have to argue against it...adaptation & evolution is a slow process and you can't expect a species to morph into a super sneaky stealthy ninja wolf overnight when we decimated their numbers in, by evolution's viewpoint, a blink of an eye...

[BuckSmasher]

They KNEW they'd leave the park boundaries, but lied about it to push it through. If they had a workable, science-based plan to deal with it before the reintroduction, I wouldn't be so against it.

That isn't true, they were re-introduced into non-park wilderness areas. And they did have a workable science-based plan. However, fear and lack of understanding on both sides of the debate has precluded its implementation.

Doesn't matter. With all the government regulations, pressure from anti-ranching groups, drought, floods, and pressure to sell out to developers, ranchers need EVERY calf to survive. I'd also like to see where your data comes from. Also, coyotes are able to be controlled...wolves aren't. Common sense says (theoretically, if your data is correct) that that percentage will go up every year. Cattle did not evolve with wolves and are extremely easy targets. Wolves are smart and it doesn't take them long to figure this out.

I NEED for the price of gas to come down, traffic to go away, a raise, more rain, and a newer truck. If having a calf dying completely ruins a ranchers profitability then those of us who like to eat beef are screwed. If a rancher is going to lose ten calves a year to predation does it matter if 5 is to wolves and 5 is to coyotes? Why would he prefer to lose all ten to coyotes?

BTW: Coyotes are unable of being controlled. The same government hunters that wiped out Grizzly's and Wolves tried on coyotes.


I posted my data last year in a thread I started about wolves, search for it in the toolbar above. The sources were the state agricultural departments in Wyoming and Montana. I am at my work computer so I do not have the links saved, I do on my laptop.

[BuckSmasher]

My stomach says, yes.

For someone who seemingly knows a 'lot' on the subject you've contributed very little to this thread. Could you post something relevant and factual in nature? While i take interest in both sides (admittedly i know little to nothing about this), your cheap remarks aren't advancing your position.

Telling someone they are wrong is not a cheap remark.

[TexMax]

Telling someone they are wrong is not a cheap remark.

I'll take that as a no

[BuckSmasher]

Found the livestock study for y'all.

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128090&highlight=wolves&page=3

[BuckSmasher]

I'll take that as a no

Before I can educate you, I must be made aware of what you do not understand. Where did I lose you?

[Lady Archer]

This is too difficult to do online. My fingers don't go fast enuf for my brain.

As far as controlling coyotes, I meant that they could be controlled because they're able to be killed.

And by "lack of understanding" you mean, failure of the ranchers, scientists, and outfitters to capitulate to the environmentalists, right?

It's not my position that wolves and people would be unable to coexist in the lower 48. My point is that environmentalists with ulterior motives...ie getting ranchers off public land, putting hunting outfitters out of business, stopping logging, etc, USE the wolf to push their agenda. You have to look at where they get their funding.

[BuckSmasher]

This is too difficult to do online. My fingers don't go fast enuf for my brain.

As far as controlling coyotes, I meant that they could be controlled because they're able to be killed.

And by "lack of understanding" you mean, failure of the ranchers, scientists, and outfitters to capitulate to the environmentalists, right?

It's not my position that wolves and people would be unable to coexist in the lower 48. My point is that environmentalists with ulterior motives...ie getting ranchers off public land, putting hunting outfitters out of business, stopping logging, etc, USE the wolf to push their agenda. You have to look at where they get their funding.

Nazis proved that smoking is bad for your health. Not all research funding predicates an a specified outcome, which is one of your issues with wolf research, correct?

[Lady Archer]

Bringing up Hitler when you're out of arguments? You really are a lib. Next you're gonna call me a racist.

[BuckSmasher]

Bringing up Hitler when you're out of arguments? You really are a lib. Next you're gonna call me a racist.

That is a joke I guess

[Lady Archer]

LOL...yeah... gettin' too tense in here.

[FIRETX12]

Telling someone they are wrong is not a cheap remark.

Maybe it would help everyone get over your demeanor if you would tell us about your dog in this fight. Is this what your education and profession are all about? Is wolf data just a hobby, or your passion. Anyone can find data to support their argument, so why the high energy level about this topic?