Crossbow qual VS trad and cmpnd qual???!!!

[Speedgoat]

Ok, they are all here for you to review stonecreek.

Ok Stonecreek, I have gone back through all of my posts and have put them on display for everyone to see. I do not know how you became so irate over this thread. Opinions are just that, opinions. They are not laws for you to live by. I am fine with crossbows and do not look down on people for using them. I think that we are all equal, hunters that is, even more so those of us on this site. Please read the highlighted portions below and then make your assumptions. I never resort to calling people names or degrading them. It is not in my nature. Thank you for your reply in advance

Last year Lake Georgetown allowed Crossbow hunters to qualify at the same distances as compound and traditional bowhunters(18-25yards). I do not have a problem with crossbow hunting, but there is something that I do have a problem with. First of all, the Lake only has 120 spots available for the Archery only hunting area. Second, there will be even more crossbow hunters this year taking even more of the slots.

The biggest issue I have is that the COE allows crossbow hunters the use of a rest and optics during the qualification which gives them an extreme advantage where scores are concerned. I do not know of any crossbow hunters that qualified last year that failed to gain a permit. I think that the number of crossbow hunters should be limited to 20 or less and that they should have to qualify without a rest.

The top 120 scores from the qualification will be issued a permit with the best scorers having weekends in the first part of October(opening weekend).
Crossbows garner higher scores than trad or cmpnd gear, that is a fact. I am afraid that many regulars may be pushed out with the influx of crossbow hunters On average, a score of 84 will get you a spot, but those numbers will surely rise this year.

What do y'all think is fair? Should they limit the number of crossbows? Should they be allowed the use of a rest during qual?

That is one way of looking at it, but traditional shooters have shorter distances than the compound shooters. Same targets, but they get to move forward a good ways.

Thanks for the input

OK, look at it this way. Traditional bowhunters and compound bowhunters have to draw their bows and hold the string for a period of time. They have to try and settle their aiming point while holding and release, all while trying to make a good shot. Crossbow hunters just have to shoulder, aim, and squeeze. This makes qualification too easy in my opinion. Oh well, the heck with it.

Yes, I put my concerns on paper when the survey came out.

I would like to respond by saying that individuals with expressed handicaps do not fall into this category and should be allowed a greater opportunity to have success under these circumstances. The point I was trying to make is that there are some that could not qualify the last couple of years with traditional or compound gear, that will now be using crossbows with rests. It takes discipline and practice to get good with your bow. Some want to take the short cut. IMO I hope I did not rub you the wrong way

Thank you for your reply Sirb

Thank you for your reply. You may have a point about proficient killers. Last year the lake only registered 80 kills out of the 150 people that qualified. Maybe croosbows would be a solution to better management, but I would have to know how many other than crossbow hunters got busted or just plain missed.

Now that is something I can live withb

I agree. Mike's boy tried last year at age 11 and he scored a 64, which was not shabby at all. I think he might actually make it this year. I am hoping

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunate that you think I was whining. I was asking specific questions to the validity of the testing process and Crossbow hunters being allowed to use a rest at the same distance when traditional and compound shoot freehand. I feel confident in my ability. I was alluding to all shooters and the fairness of the qualification. Read up a couple of posts and you can see this discussion.

To answer a couple of the others, thank you for your reply first of all. If you qualify with a specific weapon, then you have are required to use that weapon. If you qualify with a compound bow, then you cannot switch to a crossbow during the season and vise versa

I am not down on crossbows at all. I have owned them and have taken game with them.

You may be a better shot that some. How many do you know that can consistently hit the bull from 25 over and over with people watching. Not many hunting Archers are tournament archers

There is a six, an eight, and a ten ring. Ten 6 ring shots(kill shots too) only scores a 60 and leaves you waiting until next year. You have to shoot at least 8 rings all the way through or better to gain a qualifying score. Then if you just shoot an 80, which is good shooting, you still may not be in the top 120 and not get a Archery only hunting area permit. I am just wondering what fair is. I am not trying to bad mouth crossbows at all. Thank you for your replyb

I would agree with you on the fact that many do not shoot enough. I just thought that the use of a rest might be an unfair advantage. I am starting to sway towards just letting others ask the questions, as I feel confident in my ability. Thank you for your reply.

Does the original question ellude to that, whining? The question was not about crossbows taking away anything from "other" archers. It was a question of whether it was fair or not for them to qualify the same. Would you say that fired from a rest at 25 yds that a crossbow would be more accurate than "other" means? Of course it would. Let them qualify, but without the rest. That is all I was trying to say. Thanks for the reply.

Thank you for your reply. I am leaning towards being ok with the whole thing. I should just shoot and be happyb

Thank you all for your replys. I am all about hunter opportunity and whole heartedly agree to let them in regardless of rest, or speed, or optics. All hunters are equal in their creation, but not their devotion or dedication to the sport. If you are dedicated to practice with any weapon, then you get my vote. Lots of animals to kill out there for everyone to be involved. So, with that said, I have now been enlightened by this forum and have changed my opinion. Thank you.

Thank you for your reply sir. Read up a little at my last post.

I am just trying to grow and make Pope&Young here Does Mary carry any protein feed threads or Record Rack threads to speed up the process?

Yes sir, good luck to youb

There were some that tried to change the testing procedures, but the powers that be made the qual what it was. They were talking about quartering shots and shots from a ladder stand or tripod while seated. The first two years I tested, we even had to shoot out of a pop-up blind. This year was the easiest that I can remember. Congrats to all of those that made the cut(trad, cmpnd, or cross)
What I have noticed in this forum that I do take issue with now, is that there are some that think the are "deadeye Dikk" and never get nervous and pull a shot when people are watching. I find this to be quite comical Maybe y'all should take up competition archery and get sponsored, because even those guys doing it now "miss" from time to time. You guys would win every time and make lots of money doing it Anyway, thank you for all of your replies and good luck to everyone this season

Sorry that happened to you and your wife. I admit I had a different feeling about the whole process until this thread started. I am now 100% supportive of hunter opportunity regardless of weapon choice(trad, cmpnd, xbow). My buddy failed to qualify with his xbow because he had a bad bolt and did not know it. He got a pass thru on one of the targets and found his bolt. It looked good, so he used it again. He shot over the target on one shot and the last shot of the day, well, the bolt just exploded. Stuff happens and there is always the chance for equipment failure. I hope your opportunity this year is great and I wish your wife all the best with her new endeavor, hunting.

Is that correct? I thought that you had to have an impairment of some sort?

Be sure to bring your crossbow and rest

Wow, I have never been called arrogant. You might just make me cry, Not!! I have no problem with crossbows or people that use them. I have changed my opinion because I am not closed minded and I respect people. You cannot find one post in this thread where I do not say thank you for your reply, or where I have belittled or namecalled someone. Everyone has their opinion. I have changed my stance because I respect other people's point of view, even yours You called me a martyr too!!! That is just comical I would still sit down and have a beer with you, even if you have a hard time grasping the nature of people, which in this situation, I believe you do. I will take your advice and go back through my posts and see where I may have erred. The smiley faces BTW, well, those are for when humor is implied like, "remember to bring your crossbow and rest". Once you have spent some time on here (and I hope you stay around) you will see that people on here are somewhat opinionated, but still good respectful folks. Thank you for your post and I hope your season is a good one

And how do you know who the handicap hunter is or do you just look down on everyone with a crossbow because of your superiority and your God given draw-locks? Is it when they feebly pull themselves into their wheelchair or should they have a handler walking around with them yelling "disabled here, disabled, please don't look down on him, he's disabled?" Would that suffice and pass your arrogant standard so that you can properly look down on everyone else using a crossbow?




Snipe/atexx I'm sure by listening to you two and many of the other professed to be hunters on this string that you never harvested game using a firearm. As I have witnessed with many bowhunters, they've spent their entire lives hunting for the pure enjoyment of hunting, using whatever means and methods at their disposal. Then it seems, when they pick up a bow they believe they've joined some type of fraternity that allows them to pound their chests and profess that they are superior. With bow held high they look down on everyone else 'because those peasants don't know what I know and I know that I know best so they should listen up or I'll berate them with my ego.'
Sounds very familiar, Obama, Pelosi and all of the other liberal trash would be proud. No one should be allowed to choose for themselves.
These are the same type of hunters that I see every year attempting to **** on someone else's success because the deer they harvested didn't match up to what "the enlightened" believe to be trophy standard. Nevermind that when given the opportunity, early in life, they slaughtered everything in the woods before their enlightenment.

I'm disgusted with the attitude that I've seen on this thread. I grew up hunting with people who looked to hunting for survival. At a young age I experienced the pure fascination and enjoyment that only hunting could offer and have spent a good portion of my life sharing that enjoyment with others. Hunting is sacred to me and my family and it's an experience to be shared and enjoyed. The attitude of many of the bow-hunters that I see here is the adulterated marketing campaign that hunting has become. You can keep it.

If using a crossbow makes me less in your eyes then I'm glad to be separated from you.

[jbitt4x4]

Mabye you should re-read my post sir.....what exactly did i say about crossbows to set you off?????? I simply said draw locks shouldnt be legal unless someone has a physical handicap that prevents them from holding a bow at full draw. I voiced my opinion. You cant put a draw lock on a crossbow anyway! They are designed for bows, not cross bows. In my opinion, they arent safe either. I didnt step on your toes, so get off your high horse and chill out!

LOL, he must need some "edumucation" on the draw-lock...hope he's wearing a safety harness....he's pretty high up there on his soapbox

[Stonecreek]

The first two bolded statements show you leaving out important data. No one here was straight bashing crossbow users. It was simply a thread asking if it was fair for crossbow users to be allowed to compete against other archers at the same yardage..and with crossbows allowed to use a rest.

And yes many compound users do go haywire... But are they right? Can you honestly say they are NOT losing any positions on their public lands to crossbow users? Places to hunt are tight and getting harder to find..Even a little increase in competition is a big deal to some.

I seriously do not think anyone here judges anyone because they use a crossbow. They are just protective of what limited lands they have possible access to.

And whats wrong with the disabled rule we had in Texas for years and years? It seemed more than fair to me.

Yes Ratt, I can honestly say bow hunters are not losing anything. It's public land. Everyone has the same right to it. Actually, what was previously wrong with the Texas law was that public land was being set aside for a select group (only bowhunters) and everyone else was being systematically excluded. The change in archery law now allows every tax payer to have a fighting chance to claim a hunting spot. Crossbows never should have been illegal during archery season on private land. Seems slightly fairer to me, but of course I'm a crossbower.

LOL, he must need some "edumucation" on the draw-lock...hope he's wearing a safety harness....he's pretty high up there on his soapbox

Jbitt, I was edumucationed enough to get to the top of this soap box. It allows me to look down on the little people, with dry-locked crossbow.?. When did I say I wanted to use a dry-lock? And as for a "safety harness" please, the necks of the little people under my soap box will break my fall.

Snipe, aka., "Arrogant Martyr" thank you for your reply, thank you for allowing me to reply, thank you for replying to my reply, And really, thank you for your e-mail. I just want to be on your "A" list.

[Extremebowman]

Wow, what drama I have missed the past couple days. Can't we all just get along

Hang around Stoney, I like your P&V!

[tinman]

I hear ya, Stonecreek....the bowhunters of this State better just move on over, make some elbow room, and stop excluding people who don't bowhunt from the archery season & bowhunting only areas!

[rubydog]

I did not get rub Just when I got my crossbow I spent day after day at the range. and it took almost a year and work with my son and daughter before I got the nerve to try and shoot a bow I have been right handed all my life and due to MS I can not see out of my right eye but just recently I have taught myself to shoot my bow LH. I shoot every day after work with my son and daughter.
We can get unto all kinds of debates but the bottom line if a person wants to become good at anything they must practice and practice. My bow is heavy after a while just like a x-bow but there comes that practice.
Now you are total right there are some looking for a short cut but a x-bow is not it. They are missing everything hunting is about.

Hunting is more than a quick shot, it is spending time with my childern teaching them right and wrong in the woods.
John

Sir, welcome to the woods.... I salute your effort.
I think what is being said here is the fact that the number of trad shooters will be decreased by the number of people that will switch to crossbow for the sheer fact that they are much easier to qualify with. That being said, the number of trad shooters will certainly die off due to being choosen by score. I was at the IBO world the first year they had a croosbow division. For the world title they had a shoot off between a fellow witha tricked out compound crossbow and a fellow shooting a recurve crossbow. The compound style bow shot first and shot a 12. The guy with the recurve needed to atleast tie him to force another shoot off. The fellow with the recurve had the monkey on his back and infront of a crowd he robinhooded the other guys arrow, forced the 2nd shoot off and subsequently won the world title. To my knowledge there has never been a Trad shoot off since Robinhood to have that sort of ending.
That being said, you can see why there needs to be a distinction between the handicapped shooters and those guys that just want an edge. The people that just want an edge should thank all the Traditional and Compound archers for PAYING for an archery season for all those years so they can sneek in and reap the benefit for what we have spent years developing as our own season.
Again, I have no quams about the handicapped having so much as a cranking device on there bows. Being an all Trad shooter it just isn't for me but i will never say never because you don't know what the future holds. I may be in your shoes someday. God bless....

[Sparkles]

Maybe it has been said in this thread already, but I don't care. This is exactly the in fighting that will ruin hunting. We can't stand united over something that we love as two seperate groups of people. Why do we have to be seperate groups anyway? Why can't we be just a group of hunters who use different avenues? I mean crap you guys are arguing over already over pressured public land. If you don't want to share the woods with a certain type of hunter then get a lease with people that have common interests and stay on it. I am not above any form of taking game as long as it is legal. I may not particpate in all forms but who I am I to judge?

[VorTexan]

Hate it when you disagree and your "labeled". I see it in politics but the hunting community? Just because I don't think a crossbow used by an able individual should be used during the archery season does not mean I do not respect the person as an individual nor his or her right to disagree. This applies to bow hunters and crossbow hunters alike.

[BTexan]

You should be counting your luck stars

$10 application fee
$90 permit fee (if drawn)

To hunt from opening day of archery season to end of January.

For $100 you shouldn't be complaining about anything, IMO

[Stonecreek]

Hate it when you disagree and your "labeled". I see it in politics but the hunting community? Just because I don't think a crossbow used by an able individual should be used during the archery season does not mean I do not respect the person as an individual nor his or her right to disagree. This applies to bow hunters and crossbow hunters alike.

Amen, I couldn't agree with you more. Labeling is meant to prevent dialogue and countering points of view. I try to explain this to my wife every time she calls me hard headed and walks out of the room when I'm trying to make my point. Also, discussing something is not arguing, but you'll hear "stop arguing" every time people with countering points of view get together. Unless of course your liberal, then I am arguing with you.

[RiverRat1]

Amen, I couldn't agree with you more. Labeling is meant to prevent dialogue and countering points of view. I try to explain this to my wife every time she calls me hard headed and walks out of the room when I'm trying to make my point. Also, discussing something is not arguing, but you'll hear "stop arguing" every time people with countering points of view get together. Unless of course your liberal, then I am arguing with you.

Agreed

[Russ]

Being I am handicap and shoot both a crossbow and a bow with my non dominate hand, I figured I would throw in my .02.
First not all crossbow will shoot accurately at 50 yards are greater, mine is rated to 40 is the peak accuracy. Second the rest; my bow weighs 3.8 lbs crossbow weighs close to 8lbs. .

I don't think your compound weighs even close to 3.8 pounds when you add a quiver, 5 arrows, a sight, stabilizer, and a multitude of other goodies you can add to a compound. Even with the basics your bow is going to weigh around 6-8 pounds. That being said, I'm not trying to take away from the fact that you are disabled. I think it is great that you can continue to hunt with your crossbow!

But I don't think its fair to group crossbows with compounds, regardless! Whats next? Are we going to start excepting them in P&Y record books as well?

[VorTexan]

Amen, I couldn't agree with you more. Labeling is meant to prevent dialogue and countering points of view. I try to explain this to my wife every time she calls me hard headed and walks out of the room when I'm trying to make my point. Also, discussing something is not arguing, but you'll hear "stop arguing" every time people with countering points of view get together. Unless of course your liberal, then I am arguing with you.

We can disagree and I respect that.

When it gets down to it we are all hunters and on the same team (family) and me and my family have some good one's but hug at the end of the day. We all need to remember and sometimes it comes with age and a little wisdom, saying something personal is something you can never take back. Let's discuss ISSUES and not PEOPLE.

I can hunt with you guys and have no problem (as long as you follow the rules LOL!") I just want good rules...

[jbitt4x4]

You are no longer worth a key stroke from me....better yet any stroke

Yes Ratt, I can honestly say bow hunters are not losing anything. It's public land. Everyone has the same right to it. Actually, what was previously wrong with the Texas law was that public land was being set aside for a select group (only bowhunters) and everyone else was being systematically excluded. The change in archery law now allows every tax payer to have a fighting chance to claim a hunting spot. Crossbows never should have been illegal during archery season on private land. Seems slightly fairer to me, but of course I'm a crossbower.



Jbitt, I was edumucationed enough to get to the top of this soap box. It allows me to look down on the little people, with dry-locked crossbow.?. When did I say I wanted to use a dry-lock? And as for a "safety harness" please, the necks of the little people under my soap box will break my fall.

Snipe, aka., "Arrogant Martyr" thank you for your reply, thank you for allowing me to reply, thank you for replying to my reply, And really, thank you for your e-mail. I just want to be on your "A" list.

[daveally]

Nothing on this earth is fair. Get over it.

I get so sick and tired of people whining. We are our own biggest enemies. If you think the scores will go up I highly suggest you get better or buy a crossbow or find a different place to hunt.



I can agree with this 110% as long as the shoes fits both feet. No bows in rifle season.

It's not called rifle season, it's general season. And in that term lies the truth behind it all. General season is for all weapons but archery season is for archery equipment only because archers are at a disadvantage to those that hunt with firearms. Therefore archers are given a couple extra weeks, right? And maybe this is why there has been land set aside solely for the use of those hunting with archery equipment.

So if this was done because archers are at a disadvantage to firearm hunters, than are trad and compound archers at a disadvantage to cross bow hunters? The original point of the OP was not about crossbows in hunting but about the qualifying to do so, right? So if trad archers are at a disadvantage to compound archers and there's an adjustment for those two types, then why isn't there an adjustment between compound archers and crossbow archers?

Now I'm posing all of this in a question type of format because I'm not an expert. I don't hunt public land and I've never had to go to a qualifier. So y'all tell me...are archers allowed to use a rest like crossbow users can? If not, why not...if they're supposedly equal.

And for the record...crossbows are archery equipment according to the definitions.

Archery: shooting with a bow and arrows
Bow: device for shooting arrows with a taut string joining the ends of a curved piece of wood, etc.