Short Draw advice needed, Please

[EnglishRedneck]

Ok Braintrust, need some advice. I'm a short guy, and draw 27" compound, but only around 25" recurve. Because I have a shorter power stroke, should I go with a higher poundage recurve, since I won't be using the full draw. In other words, 50# at 28" is likely to be around 41# at 25", or a 60" at 28" would be 50" at 25". I know the ideal is to get a shorter draw design, but I want to build it rather than buy it (just to add to the experience!!)
What do you think?

[fletcherfor2]

I think you should go with 150 lbs and draw it back to your ear (then lunge forward and hop on your release to get a little bit more out of it).

That's what the Agincourt gang did.

[BobbyB]

Ok Braintrust, need some advice. I'm a short guy, and draw 27" compound, but only around 25" recurve. Because I have a shorter power stroke, should I go with a higher poundage recurve, since I won't be using the full draw. In other words, 50# at 28" is likely to be around 41# at 25", or a 60" at 28" would be 50" at 25". I know the ideal is to get a shorter draw design, but I want to build it rather than buy it (just to add to the experience!!)
What do you think?

A good bowyer can build you a bow with whatever poundage you want at whatever draw length you want.

The XXlb @ 28" is just a standard measurement. If you are dealing with factory bows, just back down from the rating. If you want , say 50 at 26" get a 60 pounder at 28"

If you are building your own, build it the way you need it. That is what sanders are for. Build it heavy and ease her down to what you want.

[Creig T]

I started this trad thing about a yr and 1/2 ago and I deal with the same thing. For me to get 27" I would take an ear off. My draw is about 25. I shoot a take down 45@28 and finally found the correct shaft to shoot and am getting very good performance out of it.
I shoot vapor 2000 in carbons and 5/16" woods 40-45. Both are working well. Maybe someday I will try to get one built to say 45+- @ 26. When I found the right arrow, things began to come together. If I get to 29" draw, I have it tied to a tree.

[Ol Man]

Ok - so here we go...

A good strudy design for a recurve at a usual length - say 60" or even a 58" Bow will usually be a 3 lb. gain per inch of draw weight. Now this depends upon the design - the more radical the curve the more chance of stacking at longer draw lengths.

If you want to get 41lb. @ 25" draw then this would be the weight to start with...

41lb. = 25 in
44 lb. = 26 in.
47 lb. = 27 inch
50 lb. = 28 inch.

So you need around the 50 lb. range to hit 41 lb.

You are correct in your calcs... - good job doing your homework on this!

If you are attempting to make your own bow may I suggest not going with a shorter bow. The longer limbs are more forgiving and easier on you overall. 60-62" bow is great as long as the riser isn't too long. Now a shorter limb can be used with a shorter riser which will still give you a longer limb as well. Any questions let me know.

[fletcherfor2]

I think you should go with 150 lbs and draw it back to your ear (then lunge forward and hop on your release to get a little bit more out of it).

That's what the Agincourt gang did.

Martha commented that she thought this was a mean post on my part. It was certainly not intended as a mean post.

I merely intended an historical reference to EnglishRednecks own reference to Agincourt.

6,000 English (primarily longbow men along with some cavalry) defeated something like 20,000 French crossbow men (along with a larger cavalry) on the plains of Agincourt (France) in 1415. The victory has been attributed to the range and firing rate of the English longbow Vs the French crossbow. There's a lot more to the story, but I'm trying to be brief.

English bowmen trained starting as young boys to build up their arm, shoulder, and back strength to enable them to pull 150 - 200 lb bows. Some had deformed bone spurs from the years of training. They actually did draw back to their ears and did lunge and hop on release to get a few more yards of range out of the shot. If I'm remembering the numbers correctly, they were able to hold off the enemy Army from 400 - 600 yards.

[Draco]

Doug, I was gonna say to go with a short limbed bow. Not necessarily a short bow but a short limbed bow. That way the short draw will better work the shorter limbs more to the extent of a longer draw on longer limbs. The bow would just store more energy with the short limbs. For a good example look at Bob Sarrels earlier bows,[I don't know what model] or look at 21st Century bows with long handles and short limbs.

That being said, with that short a draw you could shoot very short bows, even in the lower to middle fifty inch size quite well I would think.

Doug, do you remember what the old rule for the shotest bow you should shoot? It seems like it used to be double your draw and add four. I'm not certain about that as the memory ain't that great. Help me out here Doug.

[Ol Man]

A short limbed bow is usually faster as they come back to rest far quicker but, in that equation is the fact that any small error is magnified exponentially. Bob (Draco) you are correct in the 2 x your draw +4".. I have found that shorter limbed bows if you can get on them work very well but, make a mistake and it's all over for that shot. This is why so many bowyers now make shorter risers as the longer limbs are more forgiving. JMO though!

[EnglishRedneck]

Martha commented that she thought this was a mean post on my part. It was certainly not intended as a mean post.

I merely intended an historical reference to EnglishRednecks own reference to Agincourt.

6,000 English (primarily longbow men along with some cavalry) defeated something like 20,000 French crossbow men (along with a larger cavalry) on the plains of Agincourt (France) in 1415. The victory has been attributed to the range and firing rate of the English longbow Vs the French crossbow. There's a lot more to the story, but I'm trying to be brief.

English bowmen trained starting as young boys to build up their arm, shoulder, and back strength to enable them to pull 150 - 200 lb bows. Some had deformed bone spurs from the years of training. They actually did draw back to their ears and did lunge and hop on release to get a few more yards of range out of the shot. If I'm remembering the numbers correctly, they were able to hold off the enemy Army from 400 - 600 yards.

I took it as a joke, and applaud the history! Funny - Edward 2 was known as a hunchback, but the thought now is that he had such developed shoulders form the warbows that ti made him look deformed!


BTW - Notice you're in The Colony - just up the road from you in Litle Elm! Where do you shoot?

[mhundt]

I took it as a joke, and applaud the history! Funny - Edward 2 was known as a hunchback, but the thought now is that he had such developed shoulders form the warbows that ti made him look deformed!


BTW - Notice you're in The Colony - just up the road from you in Litle Elm! Where do you shoot?

Hi, ER, this is the infamous Martha who suggested to Dusty (Fletcherfor2 - I'm the "2", since he makes my arrows for me) that his post about Agincourt might be taken the wrong way - glad to know I was dead wrong! Dusty is an avid historian, particularly military stuff, even (or perhaps especially) the ancient stuff, so it tickled him to see your tagline

Dusty is out of town on business until Thursday so I thought I'd jump in and respond. You are practically a neighbor! We are members of Denton County Archers in Aubrey, just up from Little Elm. Here's a link to our website (you can find a map and more info). http://dentoncountyarchers.com

Though we can't navigate the terrible traffic heading north on FM 423 to get up there ourselves after work, I wanted to tell you that the club has a Fun Shoot every Thursday night during Daylight Savings Time, so if you want to see the range and meet some members, you might consider visiting then sometime. OR, you can PM me or Dusty and we can make arrangements to meet you on a weekend day to shoot and show you around.

We got on the mailing list for a Longbow club in Britain (probably got my email from the website, since I'm the webmaster) and we thoroughly enjoy hearing/reading about our archery compatriots across the pond! I cannot fathom pulling bows with draw weight of 150+ lbs

[EnglishRedneck]

Martha,
Good to hear there's some action in the neighborhood! I'm currently building my bow, and it's taking longer than I thought, but when I get it up and running I'll join you out there. I'm out of town this thursday, and next, but maybe 27th?
Guess it wouldn't do to show up with the Bowtech!!

Send me the link for the longbow club back in the UK...
Dan

[mhundt]

Martha,
Good to hear there's some action in the neighborhood! I'm currently building my bow, and it's taking longer than I thought, but when I get it up and running I'll join you out there. I'm out of town this thursday, and next, but maybe 27th?
Guess it wouldn't do to show up with the Bowtech!!

Send me the link for the longbow club back in the UK...
Dan

Here's the link from the UK longbow club, Dan:
http://www.longbow-archers.com/fraternity.htm
The Fraternity of Saint George

Sure, get your bow built and take your time to enjoy the process :-); in the meantime, we absolutely do "allow" compound shooters to join our club, so you would be welcome anytime (our son is a compound shooter, but then he's always been a gadget freak . Once you get into traditional archery, you will likely be hooked - and we'll encourage your addiction!

[Sporty87]

ER, you need to post some pic's of your build. I am also working on a homemade longbow. I'm taller so my bow is longer and I'm hoping for more like 30 - 31" draw. Just started working on it recently and I've got a call in to a local vet to save me some horns when they dehorn the next animal. I'm not looking for English long bow poundage but I too am a history nut and your tagline made me chuckle. It used to be required in England for all males to learn to shoot a longbow, as well as all ships coming into port had to carry a certain amount of bowstaves for every ton of cargo. I'll be looking for your bow pictures.

[EnglishRedneck]

ER, you need to post some pic's of your build. I am also working on a homemade longbow. I'm taller so my bow is longer and I'm hoping for more like 30 - 31" draw. Just started working on it recently and I've got a call in to a local vet to save me some horns when they dehorn the next animal. I'm not looking for English long bow poundage but I too am a history nut and your tagline made me chuckle. It used to be required in England for all males to learn to shoot a longbow, as well as all ships coming into port had to carry a certain amount of bowstaves for every ton of cargo. I'll be looking for your bow pictures.

I have pics of the build so far, including the repair when I had a delamination!! It's currently glass and bamboo, with carbon fiber overwrap, and will go around 55#, 60"amo, 57"ntn. When I get finished, I'll post the buildalong.