Did some shooting for the first time tonight

[Junkers88]

Went and spent a few hours with my neighbor so he could start teaching me. Started out at 10 yards with some bare shafts to get into some tuning. Turns out that even at a full 31.75" my 500s are too stiff for the 45lb Journey. James (neighbor) decided to try something a little drastic and added a pile of weight to one of the shafts. 250 grain target point and an additional 75 grains of insert weight. I was shooting 150 grain target points to start with.

So he adds the weight, put two yellow and two white feather fletchings on the arrow and stepped me back to 20 yards. He told me how to use the string in line with the arrow shaft to aim, what the "gap" was at different yards and let me go at it. I sucked, big time. About the fourth or fifth time I hit high and right on the target (a 3x2 box stuffed with clothing and blankets) I asked him if I could just shoot where I'm looking instead of "aiming". I hit the box within a couple inches of the paint can lid we were using for a focal point. Out of 40+ shots tonight I hit that lid twice from 20 yards and only missed the box when I was getting on being tired or I forgot to hold the bow properly. I don't know if I'm doing this right but if I try to use the arrow shaft and the string to sight the target I go all cross-eyed and can't seem to focus on the target. If I just "look where I want the arrow to go" it gets there. I'm not driving tacks or anything but I'm hitting within 8-10 inches most of the time.


There is a lot for me to learn and a lot to remember as far as holding the bow, holding the string, the release, using my back instead of my shoulders (which are SORE) etc but I've got a great guy showing me the ropes. Tonight may have been a fluke or beginners luck but dang did it feel great.

Richard.

[Bisch]

My first piece of advice would be for you to start closer. You are trying to teach your brain, eyes, and hands to work as a unit, and starting closer (like 8yds) will make it much easier. Keep after it, and good luck!

Bisch

[Junkers88]

Thanks Bisch I'll step closer tomorrow when I'm practicing. Quick question on adding weight if you don't mind. Is there any reason to go with some kind of weight system that adds weight to the insert (I'd have to buy new inserts and the weights and then rebuild the arrows) as opposed to just buying some 250 or 300 grain field points and matching weight broad heads? The first option seems more "customizable" while the latter would save me money and time.

Richard.

[Bisch]

The only advantage to the weight system is that while tuning it makes things more easy to change. After you find a well tuned setup, you are not likely to change anything anymore for that setup. I don't know what kind of arrows you are shooting, but if they are Gold Tips, you should not have to change the inserts to use the weights. If you choose the correct spine shaft and a point weight, you can usually adjust shaft length to get the tune correct, so the weights are not really necessary.

Like was mentioned in your other thread, tuning can be a real bugger when you are first starting out because a lot of things change while you are learning proper form. So, don't get too caught up in the tuning thing right now. Rather, get caught up in the learning of proper form.

Bisch

[Junkers88]

I'm shooting Beman ICS Bowhunter carbons. I got 500 spine shafts and 150 grain tips on the recommendation of Three Rivers when I placed the order.

Thanks again.

[Hunter Todd]

The only advantage to the weight system is that while tuning it makes things more easy to change. After you find a well tuned setup, you are not likely to change anything anymore for that setup. I don't know what kind of arrows you are shooting, but if they are Gold Tips, you should not have to change the inserts to use the weights. If you choose the correct spine shaft and a point weight, you can usually adjust shaft length to get the tune correct, so the weights are not really necessary.

Like was mentioned in your other thread, tuning can be a real bugger when you are first starting out because a lot of things change while you are learning proper form. So, don't get too caught up in the tuning thing right now. Rather, get caught up in the learning of proper form.

Bisch

This is good advise ^^ here. Just keep shooting every chance you get. Your form is the most important thing at this time.

[SwampRabbit]

My $.02

You are way to far from the target. 5-10 yards is all you need to be messing around with at this point until you get a fell for it. Starting out at 20 is just going to frustrate the hell out of you.

Way to early to be bareshaft tuning.

Weighted inserts and weight adapters (GT and Carbon Express) - I, as well as others, have a preferred broadhead they like. Typically, for a head design, you are limited to a few weight choices. For instance, the head I like comes in 175gr and that is it. I also like a small range of arrow length as do others. For me, that is between 28"-29". So, for my bow with a 29" Carbon Express 150 (500 spine) with a 175 grain head... I need an additional 50 grains. So I use the adapter weights to get there. I could have increased my shaft length... but I don't want to. I could have tried to find a 225 grain head... but I don't want to.

I hope that makes sense. People tend to use weighted inserts so that they can keep the shaft length and point weight to a consistent value and still tune their arrow. Also, and this is somewhat more advanced... using insert weights lets you play with FOC without going to a heavier overall point/BH.

[Junkers88]

Thanks for the advice folks! We made some more progress tonight. Turns out we were thinking backwards with regards to nock-left means too stiff of an arrow. A quick call to Three Rivers (have I mentioned that I truly appreciate those people?) got us straight and back to tuning. I've got 11 of 12 arrows tuned, the last one we need to get the weighted inserts out of and cut it to length. Bare shafted they are nock-centered at 10 yards and I'm very pleased with my shooting. I'm a bit high and right but they are impacting in a salad plate sized area with only an occasional flier when I do something stupid with my form. The rest of the week will be constant shooting after work with Sunday after church devoted to fletching them, tying on the permanent nocking points to the string, adding some string dampeners to cut some of the "twang", getting all of James' arrows for his recurve put together and then he and I are going to start shooting together several times a week. I also built a new target since the cardboard stuffed box that we were using wasn't doing much to stop the arrows. I grabbed a carpet shampooer box and stuffed it full of heavy canvas and other than weighing about 60lbs it's working well.

Richard.

[SwampRabbit]

Happy to see you are enjoying it. Sounds like you are pretty hooked. Keep the updates coming.

As far as targets go, search around the site. There are quite a few inexpensive target ideas out there. Jerp made a really nice Lifetime target. Since getting into trad, and shooting more because of it, I have started collecting plastic bags from the grocery store, etc and stuffing large burlap sacks with them. You can buy the sacks online for like $3 a piece and I now seem to have quite a few of these things. They are nice because they are really large and harder to miss at 20yards.

[Bisch]

If you are going to use string silencers, you should have them in the string before you try to tune. Everything you change will change your tune! You should have your bow set up exactly as you intend to shoot it before tuning.

Bisch

[Junkers88]

If you are going to use string silencers, you should have them in the string before you try to tune. Everything you change will change your tune! You should have your bow set up exactly as you intend to shoot it before tuning.

Bisch

Well poop.

Richard.

[Bisch]

Well poop.

Richard.

Don't get all caught up in it. Even if it changes things a little, it won't be a big enough deal at this stage of the game to worry about. Just take a note for the future that you need to have everything the way you want it before tuning.

Here is an example using the above silencer reference. String silencers add weight to the string. They absorb some of the string vibration on the shot, and that is what makes the bow quieter. The extra weight on the string will also eat up a tiny amt of energy that goes to the arrow on a string without the silencers, which will in turn rob just a tad bit of arrow speed. Some silencers will have more of this effect, some less. That will change the final tune, and if it is bad enough (and you are good enough to tell) make you have to change the arrow just a bit to make everything right again.

Bisch

[CRM_95]

Thanks for the advice folks! We made some more progress tonight. Turns out we were thinking backwards with regards to nock-left means too stiff of an arrow. A quick call to Three Rivers (have I mentioned that I truly appreciate those people?) got us straight and back to tuning. I've got 11 of 12 arrows tuned, the last one we need to get the weighted inserts out of and cut it to length. Bare shafted they are nock-centered at 10 yards and I'm very pleased with my shooting. I'm a bit high and right but they are impacting in a salad plate sized area with only an occasional flier when I do something stupid with my form. The rest of the week will be constant shooting after work with Sunday after church devoted to fletching them, tying on the permanent nocking points to the string, adding some string dampeners to cut some of the "twang", getting all of James' arrows for his recurve put together and then he and I are going to start shooting together several times a week. I also built a new target since the cardboard stuffed box that we were using wasn't doing much to stop the arrows. I grabbed a carpet shampooer box and stuffed it full of heavy canvas and other than weighing about 60lbs it's working well.

Richard.

Sounds like you're off to a good start!! Like already mentioned stay close and don't worry about accuracy so much as form. Once you form gets really consistent everything else kind of starts to fall into place. I've been shooting trad about 7 months and I shoot good groups at 20 every once in a while, but I still wouldn't shoot at an animal that far. Some people learn quicker than others so you may be able to in a couple months. But even now 20 yards is a loooong shot for me and just makes me mad trying a lot of days lol. Stick with it!!

[Junkers88]

I know what you all mean about being consistent. First thing James did was set me up with a mantra of sorts. "Open-open-squeeze-relax" in that I keep my bow hand open on the riser, keep both eyes open, squeeze with my back at full draw and just relax my draw hand on the string. I know for a fact each and every time I fail to do one of those things as the shaft goes wide. And each time I could just kick myself for not taking my time and repeating the phrase.

Richard.

[caughtandhobble]

I know what you all mean about being consistent. First thing James did was set me up with a mantra of sorts. "Open-open-squeeze-relax" in that I keep my bow hand open on the riser, keep both eyes open, squeeze with my back at full draw and just relax my draw hand on the string. I know for a fact each and every time I fail to do one of those things as the shaft goes wide. And each time I could just kick myself for not taking my time and repeating the phrase.

Richard.