How far is too Far?

[gtsticker]

I am not asking what your comfort zone is but how far is too far to shoot a big game animal with a long bow. If the shot placement is good and you have a sharp broad head. I shoot 60#s out of a 66 in sarrels long bow.

[Sleepy]

Im not a trad guy YET, but I'll throw a wild guess out there. I'd say 40 yards or so for any kind of penetration. I'd think much further than that and you start losing momentum, and while you'd still stick the animal, you may not get deep enough. Like I say, just a guess.

[Bisch]

I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar the "too far" is farther than we can shoot accurately enough to attempt it!

Bisch

[jerp]

What Bisch says is true. The killing power of our stick bows is far beyond our ability to shoot them accurately at live animals. Pope, Young, Fred Bear and all those legendary guys killed deer at distances that would be impressive for modern compounds. What they didn't record is how many they missed or wounded at those distances. It was a different time I guess but it seems that In those days, passing on the shot unless it was what we now call an "ethical shot" was not considered. If you were deer hunting and saw a deer, you shot at the deer.

[Limbwalker]

What's too far to one guy may be fine for the next.

Personally, I've taken big game out to 37 yards with a traditional bow, including a 34 yard heart shot on a Mouflon sheep in W. Texas a few years ago. But I've also passed on 10 and 15 yards shots that just didn't feel right.

Go with your gut, and practice practice practice and you'll be fine.

As for effective range? I'd put it around 100 yards on a whitetail with that rig. But that's just a guess.

[BAPilot2]

A hunting arrow with a sharp efficient broadhead will kill at any distance assuming the arrow strikes the animal in a vital location; heart, lungs, major artery, etc.

Howard Hill made several killing shots on animals well in excess of 100 yards. On September 1, 1954, Hill made a one shot kill on a running Antelope at a measured distance of 134 yards. The bow he was shooting was an 85 # longbow. On a different occasion Hill killed an Elk near Cody, Wyoming. The distance was 186 yards. He missed low on the first shot, flew high and over the bulls back on the second, and made a killing shot with the third arrow. The arrows Hill used routinely weighed 800 grs or more.

As per Fred Bear's recommendations hunting arrows should weigh at least 10 grains per pound of draw weight; i.e. a 50 # bow should be shooting 500 grains or more arrow weight. The 10 GPP was a known, and followed, principle that archers would abide by. The idea of using light weight arrows for hunting has only come into vogue since the advent of fast compound bows. It is a fact that heavier projectiles will retain greater energy, speed, and momentum over longer distances than will a lighter, faster, projectile.

Saxton Pope and Art Young killed animals as large as Grizzly Bears out past 70 yards. So, shooting and killing game past 40 yards is definitely possible.

As for ethics... times change, and in today's world of anti-hunters, instant videos, and the ever present threat of losing our rights to hunt, it is not advisable to take shots past 30 yards or so.

[Sleepy]

A hunting arrow with a sharp efficient broadhead will kill at any distance assuming the arrow strikes the animal in a vital location; heart, lungs, major artery, etc.

Howard Hill made several killing shots on animals well in excess of 100 yards. On September 1, 1954, Hill made a one shot kill on a running Antelope at a measured distance of 134 yards. The bow he was shooting was an 85 # longbow. On a different occasion Hill killed an Elk near Cody, Wyoming. The distance was 186 yards. He missed low on the first shot, flew high and over the bulls back on the second, and made a killing shot with the third arrow. The arrows Hill used routinely weighed 800 grs or more.

As per Fred Bear's recommendations hunting arrows should weigh at least 10 grains per pound of draw weight; i.e. a 50 # bow should be shooting 500 grains or more arrow weight. The 10 GPP was a known, and followed, principle that archers would abide by. The idea of using light weight arrows for hunting has only come into vogue since the advent of fast compound bows. It is a fact that heavier projectiles will retain greater energy, speed, and momentum over longer distances than will a lighter, faster, projectile.

Saxton Pope and Art Young killed animals as large as Grizzly Bears out past 70 yards. So, shooting and killing game past 40 yards is definitely possible.

As for ethics... times change, and in today's world of anti-hunters, instant videos, and the ever present threat of losing our rights to hunt, it is not advisable to take shots past 30 yards or so.

Interesting and impressive information on those guys. Ive never shot a long bow so I have no idea of the speeds these bows shoot. I didn't think their effective range would be that far, but I guess I know now!

[trad"Doc"53]

IMO you answered your question with the term "comfort zone". Very few hunters if any would admit that the 40,50 or 60 yard kill shot they made was total luck, and would only attempt such a shot when by themselves. IMO, a shot out of your "comfort zone", is too far. To me, trad bowhunting is all about getting close.

[TacticalCowboy]

Im not a trad guy YET, but I'll throw a wild guess out there. I'd say 40 yards or so for any kind of penetration. I'd think much further than that and you start losing momentum, and while you'd still stick the animal, you may not get deep enough. Like I say, just a guess.

I agree with Bisch. Traditional bows get their penetration from the arrow's weight, not its speed like compounders want to think.

[Sleepy]

I agree with Bisch. Traditional bows get their penetration from the arrow's weight, not its speed like compounders want to think.

I agree with him too, he definitely knows more than I do about it without a doubt. Regardless of arrow weight though, speed is still an ingredient that dictates momentum. A 600 grain arrow moving at 100fps has less effective kill range than the same arrow at 200fps. My lack of knowledge of trad bow speeds is what makes me ignorant of the subject.

[gtsticker]

A hunting arrow with a sharp efficient broadhead will kill at any distance assuming the arrow strikes the animal in a vital location; heart, lungs, major artery, etc.

Howard Hill made several killing shots on animals well in excess of 100 yards. On September 1, 1954, Hill made a one shot kill on a running Antelope at a measured distance of 134 yards. The bow he was shooting was an 85 # longbow. On a different occasion Hill killed an Elk near Cody, Wyoming. The distance was 186 yards. He missed low on the first shot, flew high and over the bulls back on the second, and made a killing shot with the third arrow. The arrows Hill used routinely weighed 800 grs or more.

As per Fred Bear's recommendations hunting arrows should weigh at least 10 grains per pound of draw weight; i.e. a 50 # bow should be shooting 500 grains or more arrow weight. The 10 GPP was a known, and followed, principle that archers would abide by. The idea of using light weight arrows for hunting has only come into vogue since the advent of fast compound bows. It is a fact that heavier projectiles will retain greater energy, speed, and momentum over longer distances than will a lighter, faster, projectile.

Saxton Pope and Art Young killed animals as large as Grizzly Bears out past 70 yards. So, shooting and killing game past 40 yards is definitely possible.

As for ethics... times change, and in today's world of anti-hunters, instant videos, and the ever present threat of losing our rights to hunt, it is not advisable to take shots past 30 yards or so.

This is interesting. I wanted to know the effectiveness. If for instance I make a 40 yard Lung shot on an Elk am I going to get the penetration needed to make an ethical kill. I know "things" can happen but was just wondering. I would rather shoot one at 10 yrds like I did with my wheel bow last year.

[RickBarbee]

Most Trad equipment is more than capable of being very lethal at longer distances.

When I was younger I killed lots of animals at 50 plus yards.
I never thought twice about taking those long shots until one day a perfectly placed 50 yard shot was turned into a nightmare just because the muledeer decided to lick his butt right before the arrow got there.

I developed a much different attitude from that day forward. I want to get as close as I can, and will pass on anything beyond 25 yards unless certain conditions exist.

I love the stories about the old guys like Howard Hill, Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, etc, etc making those real long shots, BUT has anyone ever stopped to think about how many shots they took like that which were misses, or even worse resulted in wounded & lost animals. I would bet my bottom dollar there were lots of those incidents, and they just didn't get publicized to often.

Have you ever stopped to consider how long the walking stride of a grazing elk is. Lets just say, one step can easily/quickly turn a perfect heart shot into a gut shot.

Let your conscience be your guide, BUT always keep in mind - the longer the shot, the more time the animal has to move before the arrow gets there.

Rick

[BAPilot2]

I agree with him too, he definitely knows more than I do about it without a doubt. Regardless of arrow weight though, speed is still an ingredient that dictates momentum. A 600 grain arrow moving at 100fps has less effective kill range than the same arrow at 200fps. My lack of knowledge of trad bow speeds is what makes me ignorant of the subject.

True. If you have two arrows, each weighing 600 grs, one traveling 100 fps and the other traveling 200 fps, the faster arrow will have a greater range. The rate at which each arrow loses speed will be equal due to the weight of each arrow being the same. So the faster arrow will have more speed (time) in surplus.

However, if you have two arrows;
Arrow A at 350 grs and 300 fps, vs. Arrow B at 700 grs and 185 fps
Arrow A will lose speed at a greater rate than will Arrow B.
The heavier arrow will be able to more easily maintain its speed due to its greater mass.

[Sleepy]

True. If you have two arrows, each weighing 600 grs, one traveling 100 fps and the other traveling 200 fps, the faster arrow will have a greater range. The rate at which each arrow loses speed will be equal due to the weight of each arrow being the same. So the faster arrow will have more speed (time) in surplus.



However, if you have two arrows;

Arrow A at 350 grs and 300 fps, vs. Arrow B at 700 grs and 185 fps

Arrow A will lose speed at a greater rate than will Arrow B.

The heavier arrow will be able to more easily maintain its speed due to its greater mass.

Yes sir, I am aware of that. I was trying to prove a point to TacticalCowboy that speed DOES have an impact on momentum. No it's definitely not everything, but it is part of the equation. I'm sure he's well aware of that too. Sometimes it's hard to get out what you're really trying to say on this dang keyboard!

[TacticalCowboy]

Yes sir, I am aware of that. I was trying to prove a point to TacticalCowboy that speed DOES have an impact on momentum. No it's definitely not everything, but it is part of the equation. I'm sure he's well aware of that too. Sometimes it's hard to get out what you're really trying to say on this dang keyboard!

Sometimes? I thought it was everytime!