Hey Draco Shooting Question

[M.E.B.]

I have read your sticky several times. I am getting ready for an elk hunt and I am still trying to decide between my compound and recurve.

I shooting 50 lbs. 27" draw. 550 grain arrows. 165 fps.

I am point on at 27 yds.

If I try to shoot point on at 40 yds I am around 38" low. Does that sound about right?

I would really like to know my MO or KE at 30-40 yds but short of rigging up some kinda way to make sure I don't shoot my chrono I don't know how to figure it.

I have no plans to shoot past 30 yds. It just seems to me that I am loosing a lot of power past 20 yds.

[Mike Javi Cooper]

Mike... try this it'll get you in the ball park http://peteward.com/ballistic.calc.htm

[M.E.B.]

Thanks Mike.

According to the charts with KE or M I should not elk hunt with my set up but I know people who have done so with success. At 30 yds the calculator shows me at 27 KE and .359 at MO

The calculator drop is measured shooting your bow level. I guess you woud have to measure from the tip of your arrow to the ground and then see where it winds up on the target.

As far as just looking at the point on drop of 38" in the 13 yds from 27 yds and 40 yds it surprised me.

[Mike Javi Cooper]

Mike this is the problem with all the Ke stuff it really don't correlate to archery and especially to trad...

Ke is heavily weighted to velocity and as you know that's something we don't have. A much better measurement of penetration potential for archery and especially our archery is momentum. That being said I seriously doubt Howard Hill gave a rat's butt about either...

I don't have the hunting experience of a bunch of these folks since I've only killed 4 elk, but in my limited experience I've never had to shoot past 20 yards at one. In my younger years I would have I'm sure... but I never needed to.

Quit worrying about this stuff and go kill something. Your bow has plenty of cast to kill an elk. Just make sure you're using a properly designed BH for the cast you do have and you'll be good.

PS... I sent you a PM

[Draco]

While I would never tell you not to use that set up on elk, I wouldn't even think about it myself. I feel quite certain that your set up would make it into the vitals and kill an elk, it has a strong possibility of a one lung hit with the arrow still in the animal. Recovering the animal might be tough though.

I've never even figured KE or momentum on any bow I've owned simply because of the weight I shoot so no help there. I have read every thing that Dr. Ashby has written on the subject and believe it all to be true so I would certainly take that into consideration.

I think you should just shoot more weight and here's why. We all know more weight get's more penetration but so many people "think" they can't handle it. They think a weight that they can handle is a weight they can shoot an entire 3D range with. In hunting, we will never need to shoot that many shots at a time. If you have a bow that is 10#'s heavier than the bow you shoot 3D with and it has the same trajectory then it shouldn't matter which you pick up, if you only shoot a few shots. So shoot your light bow most but shoot the heavier bow a few shots every once in a while and I bet you do just fine.

[M.E.B.]

Draco,

How much weight do you shoot?

Funny thing is that I spoke to Javi today and told him that the 50 target several rounds of 3D in one day is the reason I dropped from 60 lbs to 50 lbs.

I have killed probably around 60 ish deer with 50 lbs and have not had any problems until fairly recently when I had some bad luck with a couple of good hits.

I have cringed on here a few times when people talk about shooting 40 lb bows.

How many inches of drop do you have between 30 and 40 yds?

[Bisch]

I do not have a clue how much drop I have between 27 and 40yds, but I know it is substantial! I can tell you that I am positive that a well tuned arrow from a 50# bow will kill an elk, no problem, if it is put in the right place. Just as dead as an arrow from a 70# bow!

Bisch

[ShaBow]

The trajectory of your arrow at 40yds you are asking about sounds about what it should be for your set-up!

[M.E.B.]

I do not have a clue how much drop I have between 27 and 40yds, but I know it is substantial! I can tell you that I am positive that a well tuned arrow from a 50# bow will kill an elk, no problem, if it is put in the right place. Just as dead as an arrow from a 70# bow!

Bisch

Dang I hope you're right. It sounds like we are going to be above timber line without any trees for cover. Might be some far shooting involved. I'm really torn about what bow to bring. That compound buys me another 20 yds.

Bisch you are shooting all the time. Next chance you get see how much your set up drops 10 yds further than point on just for giggles. Thanks.

[Bisch]

I can't tell you what my point on is, other than it is waaaaaay out there. My anchor is so low that my point on is out there at 45-50yds.

Bisch

[Draco]

I do not have a clue how much drop I have between 27 and 40yds, but I know it is substantial! I can tell you that I am positive that a well tuned arrow from a 50# bow will kill an elk, no problem, if it is put in the right place. Just as dead as an arrow from a 70# bow!

Bisch

Says the man that's never shot an animal with a 70# bow to see the dramatic differences in what that much weight can actually do for a person. Also killing one and then finding it are two different things. A one lung hit animal can go a long, long way and with less poundage, the chances of that are very likely. Two holes are always better than one.

My bow is point on at 32 yards and is just over a foot low at 40. I'm shooting 63# with a 590 gr. arrow with 240gr. of that weight, up front.

[M.E.B.]

Dang, I did not mean to start trouble.

As far as bow weight is concerned I carry a .45 because regardless of what I hear a .45 is bigger than a 40 or 9 cal. And 70 lbs is better than 50 lbs.

That being said if we regulated everyone to shooting 70 lbs there would be a dramatic decrease in the number of archers out there. I have killed a lot of critters with 60 and 50 lbs. I am just a bit concerned as an elk is a heck of a lot bigger than a whitetail.

I just have never played with my point on very much until here recently. I have hit many a 30-40 yd 3D target with no knowledge at all how much hold over I had and when I noticed it it really got my attention. Not because of the drop but because decreased speed means decreased power no matter how you slice or dice it or how heavy your arrow is. More speed with the same weight arrow at any distance is better.

Gonna hit the target range and make some decisions;
Please don't get upset on my account.

take care.

Mike

[Bisch]

I never said I had shot a critter with a 70# bow. I am a firm believer that anyone who hunts with a bow should shoot as much draw weight as they can shoot well. For me, that is right around 50#. There is too much other stuff that can mess you up when you have an animal in front of you to have a bow in your hand that you can only make a couple of good shots with when there is no pressure on you.

By the way, we got some welding to do pretty soon!

Bisch

[Mike Javi Cooper]

I guess we all need to shoot 100 pound bows so we can kill field mice..

[Draco]

Got a fresh bottle of argon and new spool of aluminum wire so I'm ready when you are. While we are at it you might think about bow racks and a tube that is out of the way to keep extra arrows in. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff here to build them with.