Feathers or vanes???

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I have a cheap recurve I bought from a pawn shop a while back that all of a sudden started flinging arrows very sporadically. I am using a simple single prong arrow rest from academy because I have no clue whether or not to shoot from the shelf. I was wondering, if I switch to feather or fake feathers and ditch the vanes, will this allow me to shoot off of the shelf of the bow??? I'd like to start using this as a rabbit killer and get good enough to justify a nicer recurve in the future

[M.E.B.]

Vanes normally do not shoot very well off of the shelf. Feathers do much better.

What are you calling "fake feathers"?

There is no shame in shooting off of a rest with or without feathers.

Paul Schafer shot vanes off of a rest and he is considered one of the best hunters of modern bow hunting.

[live2hunt65]

feathers they recover better vanes to stiff

[popup_menace]

Vanes normally do not shoot very well off of the shelf. Feathers do much better.

What are you calling "fake feathers"?

There is no shame in shooting off of a rest with or without feathers.

Paul Schafer shot vanes off of a rest and he is considered one of the best hunters of modern bow hunting.

I've seen that there are feathers made out of some synthetic material that fly like feathers made from actual birds.

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My biggest concern is that, with a normal single prong rest, my right side lower vane/feather hits the rest/shelf causing it to tail left rather extremely.

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Does anyone here use the flipper arrow rest? I'm thinking this will be my best bet to reduce arrow tail

[Deb]

Feathers.

[SwampRabbit]

I recently went through this decision process. I wanted to shoot vanes due to cost, availability, durability, etc (blazer vanes.) I was buying a new recurve and was trying to decide how to set it up. I ended up shooting feathers from a rest. My primary reason was because I wanted to be able to shoot 3D, etc and in the end I literally told myself "what the he!! - why not?") I am glad I did... but then again, I feel myself wanting to hunt trad, etc. It is really addicting.

You shouldn't shoot vanes off a shelf. If you have a shelf, you can shoot feathers from them. You will need to adjust your nocking point appropriately when/if you do that.

The kicking you are seeing may be less due to the vanes/rest, but more so your arrow spine. If you spine is too stiff, your arrow won't "bend" around the cutout and the back will slap the rest and you will see what you see. My guess is you are probably over spined. I've noticed that spine is a much bigger deal with a stick bow and fiinger release.

What is your bow draw weight at your draw length and what spine arrows are you currently using? As a reference, I am shooting a 40# recurve at 28"... My DL is around 27" and I am having to use 600 spine arrows and loading up the front with some weight to increase the dynamic spine. I would not be able to use my 400 spine arrows that I use for my 50# compound. They would be WAY too stiff.

[GVK]

Feathers. If you hit them with a field point while practicing they are not as likely to need immediate replacement. Try placing a toothpick under the shelf to give an elevated rest.

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So I had no clue that spine played such a big role here. I believe my bow is a 30# at 28" (which is my DL). I'm shooting some 400 spine, which is extremely stiff... I will try and go to a 600 and see if that helps.

[SwampRabbit]

So I had no clue that spine played such a big role here. I believe my bow is a 30# at 28" (which is my DL). I'm shooting some 400 spine, which is extremely stiff... I will try and go to a 600 and see if that helps.

Yeah, 400s are way too much and you will SEE the impact that stiffness like that will have on your arrow flight from the recurve.

It's amazing. I recently aquired a 25#lb for my wife and started shooting light weight 600s from them with 100 gr points. I could see the kicking issues right off the bat. I ended up putting 175 gr feild points (heaviest I had) and they started flying way better. By doing this I decreased the dynamic spine enough for her to get better arrow flight. I now really need to go in and start playing with her arrows more to fine tune now that she is starting to shoot more consistently. I bet she is still overspined with that setup.

A relatively inexpensive setup you can use is to go out and buy those NASP genesis arrows from academy for $5 each. They come pre vaned. Order a dozen inserts for the 1820 shafts from 3rivers archery along with a pack or two of thier assorted feild point weight packs (2 each of 100/125/145/175/200/250 gr points) and some hot melt.

Those arrows are 600 spine aluminum. They are what my son shoots from his genisis bow. I've taken those, replaced the 56gr point with an insert (no cutting, just heat the tip, remove, and replace with insert.) Then I put 100 grain point on it. My son gets fairly decent groups with a 100 point weight. I bet he'd get better with some more weight since he doesn't draw but maybe 24" and with the limbs set at 17lbs, but with 100, I can put a G5 small game head and we can go rabbit hunting.

[M.E.B.]

Flipper rests work very well. As do Hoyt Super Rest.

I have shot with rests and off the shelf. I prefer off the shelf.
But it I had to I would not hesitate sticking a rest on a bow.

[Fuzzy Dog]

So I had no clue that spine played such a big role here. I believe my bow is a 30# at 28" (which is my DL). I'm shooting some 400 spine, which is extremely stiff... I will try and go to a 600 and see if that helps.

Swamp Rabbit's right - a 400 spine arrow out of a 30# and you might as well be shooting rebar for all the flex you're going to get.

I disagree with him slightly on the vane issue - you can in fact shoot vanes off the shelf IF you shoot cock vane in. The natural torque applied to the arrow when you release will take that one vane off the riser a lot better than it will take the two hen vanes. Vanes are not as forgiving as feathers, but they hold up a lot better in crappy weather than do feathers.

I've tried a number of waterproofing treatments for feathers. If there's a good one out there I haven't found it. They either make the feathers as still as vanes, which kind of defeats the purpose or they don't make them waterproof.

That, of course, doesn't matter if you bare shaft tune your arrows to the point that you can hit what you want without anything on them. If you can hit your spot at 20 yards with a bare shaft with a hunting head on it, shoot feathers because then it makes no difference whether they're wet or dry.

[Dragonheart]

I shoot vanes off a brush rest. I would ditch the prong rest, shoot a release with that arrow-rest. You have to decide do you want feathers or vanes. Feathers will go either way, but vanes you need an arrow rest. And that arrow-rest needs to be a flipper or brush rest. I would recommend a bear weather-rest. I shoot an arrow rest made out of a toothbrush. Best hunting rest I have found, bar none! If you are serious about shooting a recurve than contact me.

[SwampRabbit]

I disagree with him slightly on the vane issue - you can in fact shoot vanes off the shelf IF you shoot cock vane in. The natural torque applied to the arrow when you release will take that one vane off the riser a lot better than it will take the two hen vanes. Vanes are not as forgiving as feathers, but they hold up a lot better in crappy weather than do feathers.

Hey, I'm still learning all of this stuff I hadn't given that one too much thought and just applied the general rule of thumb. I've seen kiddos at scout camp shooting vanes off the shelf and it was pretty, well, not pretty. But then again, I never gave it another thought on how you might avoid the contact by adjusting the vane orientation.

You would also need to pay close attention to spine on that right? because you really need the back end to bend around the riser comepletely. Wouldn't you need to have your deflection be 100% the height of your vane?

I'm going to have to give that a try next time I shoot.