Perplexed About Arrows - Need Some Help

[jpbruni]

This is going to be a little drawn out, so please bear with me...

To say I'm extremely confused and frustrated is an undersatement! I have been shooting for about 4 months now since I bought my bow and I'm finally starting to get the hang of this trad stuff and really enjoying it. During my short tenure, I have progressed through a several gloves and tabs (split finger and 3 under), brace height and nock adjustments, shelf material, string material and all kinds of form, stance and anchor changes. My scores have made this very apparent. I'm averaging high 140's to high 160's. I'm really, REALLY trying to break into the 200's!!

I FINALLY feel like I have the form and the equipment issues resolved and now it's just practice, practice, practice; execept for one thing...ARROWS! Which to me seem like the most important part of this equation.

My bow is a 62" reflex/deflex longbow, 52 lbs (verified by Bob) at 28". It's quiet and fast with very little hand shock. I'm shooting a 3 under tab and canting the bow slightly, shooting totally instinctive (not gap shooting).

I will be getting some wood arrows soon, so I can shoot in 2 classes, but for now I shoot carbons with 5" feathers fletched right helical. I started with Easton ST Carbon Excel 500's in full length. They shot just "OK", not bad, but certainly not great. Then I bought a dozen Beman ICS Bowhunter 500's that again, just shot "OK". Through a set of circumstances that involved four 3-D shoots, backyard practice, vicious rocks, 2 robin hoods and arrow-eating grass, I needed some more arrows this weekend while we were down in San Antonio to shoot Camp Bullis

I went over to Mesquite Archery at 3:00 Sat afternoon and the guys there were very helpful getting me a half dozen Beman MXF Classic 500's in full length fletched up with 4" parabolic feathers. Without any practice, I shot the Camp Bullis shoot Sunday morning and got my highest score to date (181). I did not even have time to practice with them before the shoot. Problem is, they seem better, but still not flying that great (to me).

They were also quite expensive (which I don't have a problem with as long as they will solve my problem), they are smaller in diameter and quite a bit heavier (9.7 gpi vs 7.3). They look like they would be great for hunting, but I'm just not sure about them for 3-D. They dropped quite fast past 20 yards

Here's my dilema...I want to find an arrow that will work well for both hunting and 3-D and I want it to fly very well, if not perfect. I might be asking too much, but I've accomplished that with my compound bow arrow flight and I feel I should be able to do that with my Longbow!

It was fairly easy to paper tune and make fine adjustments on my wheelie bow, but I just don't feel super confident that I can judge good arrow flight and make small adjustments with my trad bow yet. I also don't want to spend tons of money experimenting with different 1/2 dozens of arrows either! to make my dilema even worse, I think my bow is right on the cusp of needing to go to a 400 spine possibly

So should I be looking for a lighter, faster, flat-shooting arrow? Or will these MXF Classics do the trick or do I just need to practice more out at distances with them? How do I know if I need to move up to 400's?

Are there legit concerns or am I just driving myself crazy here

Thanks for the help.

J.P.

[jerp]

Have you tried using Stu Miller's calculator? It was very helpful to me. I messed around with it until I found a near perfect combination then built the arrows based on that. It gave me confidence that I was shooting the right arrows. This was important because my form - especially my release - was not consistent so I did not trust the data I was getting from arrow flight.

[moreammo]

i wouldn't think you need to move up to 400 but what do i know anyway if you decide to go up to a 400 i have a half dozen ICS bowhunters in 400 that you are welcome to, full length shafts only. I would be happy to give you 3, GT 3555 shafts as well these are 500's and are already cut to 29 inches though. If your interested just drop me a line.

i second stu's as well, just make sure all that data is right.

[huntinpool]

Having arrows that fly good with fletchings and having arrows that are tuned are 2 seperate things. You can have very out of tune arrows fly decent with 4-5" feathers on them Bare shaft tuning WILL show you your problems and get you shooting your best , fastest. Shoot 3 fletched and 3 un-fletched matching arrows and when your groups are almost the same spot , then you will see your scores jump up for sure.
Since you have been shooting for a while now , you should be able to get it done in an afternoon. The main thing is to do the same thing everytime. Start at 10-15 yds and get the groups close , then move back a little and make fine tuning adjustments. It should be no problem to get good groups out to 25 yds or more. I stop at 25 because that is the size of my yard and the max distance I want to shoot at game.

Click this link and then select "BOW TUNING" follow the method described making small adjustments at a time. You may need a good selection of points. If you have arrows to the length you want then point weight will be your only way of moving arrow left and right besides playing with sideplate thickness .

http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm

[jpbruni]

Have you tried using Stu Miller's calculator? It was very helpful to me. I messed around with it until I found a near perfect combination then built the arrows based on that. It gave me confidence that I was shooting the right arrows. This was important because my form - especially my release - was not consistent so I did not trust the data I was getting from arrow flight.

Jerp, I have not tried that calculator yet. I will look into it. Thanks.

i wouldn't think you need to move up to 400 but what do i know anyway if you decide to go up to a 400 i have a half dozen ICS bowhunters in 400 that you are welcome to, full length shafts only. I would be happy to give you 3, GT 3555 shafts as well these are 500's and are already cut to 29 inches though. If your interested just drop me a line.

i second stu's as well, just make sure all that data is right.

I see you are in Austin, so I may take you up on your very generous offer. Maybe we could get together and shoot a few bareshaft and check them that way? I have wanted to try the GT 35/55's as well.

Thanks!

J.P.

[moreammo]

Yeah, just let me know.
-Jon

[Bisch]

JP - we need to get together and see if i can help you out a bit. Arrow tuning is one of thee most frustrating aspects of getting this all right. I paper tune and think I may be able to help you out a bit if we can get together. I also have Stu's calculator on my computer and can show you how to get it on yours. I also shoot all my 3D with my hunting weight arrows. PM me if you are interested in getting together.

See ya later,

Bisch

[TxAg]

For reference, i shoot a bow about the same specs and am exceptionally pleased with my Beman MFX 500s. I'm shooting a total of 225 up front using a 30.5" arrow. I can go to a heavier broadhead (150-165) and still not notice much difference. I dont have any issues with them nose diving past 20 yds.


Please keep in mind all bows and all shooters are different. So what works for one doesnt necessarily work for another.

It's also possible that your form and/or brace or nock height are having an impact on arrow flight. If you've only been shooting for four months, there's a good chance your form isnt great (no offense). Mine still needs work and i've been shooting a while now.

[jpbruni]

For reference, i shoot a bow about the same specs and am exceptionally pleased with my Beman MFX 500s. I'm shooting a total of 225 up front using a 30.5" arrow. I can go to a heavier broadhead (150-165) and still not notice much difference. I dont have any issues with them nose diving past 20 yds.


Please keep in mind all bows and all shooters are different. So what works for one doesnt necessarily work for another.

It's also possible that your form and/or brace or nock height are having an impact on arrow flight. If you've only been shooting for four months, there's a good chance your form isnt great (no offense). Mine still needs work and i've been shooting a while now.

Great to hear your success with them. I know they are top quality shafts, but wow, 225 up front. I have a 50g brass insert and a 125g head. I might need to increase!

No offense at all taken on the form comment. I'm sure there is fine tuning needed, but boy have I been working on this! I feel better than I ever have about my form/stance/anchor/release/follow through, now I just hoping it's my arrows or a tuning issue

J.P.

[Ol Man]

Depending on what point weight you are shooting or wanting to shoot.. I would say that the 600 spine CE Predator II's would be perfect for you. They actually weigh more than the Easton Excel 500's. With these shafts you could shoot up to 175 grain heads and get exceptional flight. Take a look at these shafts - price is great as well....

http://www.braveheartarchery.us/carbon_arrows_and_shafts.htm

[TxAg]

Great to hear your success with them. I know they are top quality shafts, but wow, 225 up front. I have a 50g brass insert and a 125g head. I might need to increase!

No offense at all taken on the form comment. I'm sure there is fine tuning needed, but boy have I been working on this! I feel better than I ever have about my form/stance/anchor/release/follow through, now I just hoping it's my arrows or a tuning issue

J.P.

I'm using a 125 gr head, 75 gr insert, and an aluminum footing about 25 gr...didnt mean to imply that just my broadhead is 225.

Might try adding some more weight up front? What's your total arrow weight? You could be overspined insteadof underspined.

Again, just for reference...my arrows are 535-540 grains. I could go heavier or lighter depending on preference but they are flying well.

[Restless]

Carbons are darn stiff load up the front end

[TxAg]

I'm using a 125 gr head, 75 gr insert, and an aluminum footing about 25 gr...didnt mean to imply that just my broadhead is 225.

Might try adding some more weight up front? What's your total arrow weight? You could be overspined insteadof underspined.

Again, just for reference...my arrows are 535-540 grains. I could go heavier or lighter depending on preference but they are flying well.

You got my wheels turning, so when I got home a minute ago I weighed my bow again (52.5# at 29") and shot some of my arrows with the 125 gr head. Then I shot some with a 150 gr head. At 20 yds I can't tell a difference in point of impact. I might stick with the 150s for a while though...the bow seemed even a touch quieter than normal.

[SMOOTHboar]

JP... I'm where you are too. But I haven't shot 3D yet as I'm frustrated.