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What did the Native Americans shoot

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    #31
    To the PLAINS Indians it was more about survival... Not like us where its "fun" Ive seen arrow heads in all shapes and sizes. from 1/2" to 2" and anywhere in between.

    Arrowheads...They used what they had at hand... and it was not always the same, especially for nomadic tribes. Flint was the most readily available so you see more of those heads, but as was stated obsidian when it could be had was used too.

    If I were going to make one today I would use flint obsidian or glass (the bottom of a glass coke bottle works well) and knapping aint hard its just takes time and practice.

    Shafts... As for shafts and draw length they used what they could find.. There arrows were cut but not so much as to a certain length but as to make it as straight as possible. Given they only had what nature gave them. Arrow shafts were made out of shoots, such as dogwood, wild rose, ash, birch, chokecherry, and black locust. And were shaved, sanded, or heat and pressure straightened.

    Bows... The intended use of the system, on foot or horse back, for instance, affects the final design. Bows used while mounted on horseback tend to be shorter than the bows used when on foot. Since the length of the bow determines the stress placed on the bow when drawn, shorter bows tend to be made of composite materials while bows used when on foot can be made of wood.
    Again they had to be resourceful and had to carry these bows in earlier times on foot for long distances so they werent too heavy or too long. Several species of plants and some animal materials met these requirements. Ash, hickory, locust, Osage orange, cedar, juniper, oak, walnut, birch, choke cherry, serviceberry, and mulberry woods were used (all bend and not break). Elk antler, mountain sheep horn, bison horn, and ribs, and caribou antler also were used where available to make composite bows. Strings were made of sinew,gut, or rawhide, occasionally, plant fibers, such as inner bark of basswood, slippery elm or cherry trees, and yucca were used. Nettles, milkweed, and dogbane are also suitable fibers.

    The height and strength of the archer determines the ideal draw weight of the bow. A combination of the length of draw and the draw weight of the bow determines the cast (propelling force or fps what we used to day) of the bow. Adjusting either or both of these features allows the arrowhead to be made larger or smaller as needed.

    The draw weight of the bow also determines the ideal weight and diameter of the arrow shaft. Even a bow with a high draw weight can only throw an arrow so far. If the arrow is too heavy, it will not fly far or fast enough to be very useful. A shaft that is too thick or too thin will also lead to problems. It must compress enough to bend around the bow as it is launched by the string. If it does not bend, the arrow flies to the side of the target. If it bends too much, it will wobble (reducing the striking force) or even shatter.

    The length of the draw, also determined by the body of the archer, determines the length of the arrow. The maximum effectiveness of the bow determines the maximum weight of the point. This is how we know that certain "arrowheads" can not really have been used on an arrow, at least not to any good effect. A general rule of thumb is that a stone arrowhead will be less than 1 1/2-x-3/4-inch in dimensions and will generally weigh less than one ounce. Larger "arrowheads" probably would have been spear, dart, or knife tips.

    But as an Archer/Hunter you should know all of ^^^ that. Most bows were in the 30-50 lb mark. and draw length was in the 20 to 25 in mark, like I said based on the hunter/archer.

    As for one shot one kill... Nope not often. Indians hunted in packs and shot their pray many many times to get it to go down. So a complete pass trhough wasnt necessary. They would shoot, track, shoot track... or often they would coral prey towards other shooters.. much like our pheasant hunts! Hunting most often involved driving the game down a cliff or into a corral or encircling it by fire.


    Then the white man showed up ad it all changed!!!!
    White man (spanish) brought the horse and with the horse came a new way to pack and hunt. Bows became shorter and it was easier to run down animals and try to dispatch with one shot. because the bows were carried by horse they could be heavier too which means now they were pulling more poundage! Bows were built for the archer to their specs some pulling 40-50lbs but the draw length stayed about the same 20 -25inces on average.

    Then came the disaster of modern medicine and modern firepower for the indians ... and now they run casinos... the End.
    Last edited by Coach W; 07-22-2011, 09:27 AM.

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      #32
      good info. coach

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        #33
        I have hunted with primitive gear now for about 5 years it is a hoot I have taken 14 deer with a 45# osage bow with both ceder and river cane arrows of my own making I am not an Indian just a short white man that likes to do it the old way.

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          #34
          Originally posted by widdler View Post
          I have hunted with primitive gear now for about 5 years it is a hoot I have taken 14 deer with a 45# osage bow with both ceder and river cane arrows of my own making I am not an Indian just a short white man that likes to do it the old way.
          This is Arvin. You got any pics to back up these tall Texas tales?

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            #35
            Originally posted by Deb View Post
            This is Arvin. You got any pics to back up these tall Texas tales?
            Arvin can I come by and build a bow?

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              #36
              Originally posted by flywise View Post
              Arvin can I come by and build a bow?
              Yes, can't wait to have you.

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                #37
                Originally posted by flywise View Post
                good info. coach
                Not a prob as a history major, teacher and avid history channel watcher you remember a few things...

                Hope it helps your quest.

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                  #38
                  Read "Hunting with a Bow and Arrow by Saxton Pope in 1923. He has a lot about Ishi's bow and arrows.

                  Remarkable, he routinely shot deer at 90 yards with a yew bow, wood arrows and home made steel broadheads.

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                    #39
                    If you travel to our Northern States (Dakotas) you will find places where the indians would herd the buffalo and start them running to get them to go over a cliff, where the rest of the tribe would be waiting to start the field dressing...I don't think the indians shot many buffalo with bows.....much less had a pass thru.....

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                      #40
                      I was reading a book the other day which had a lot to say about the Comanches killing buffalo by riding along side them on a horse and sticking them with a large spear...something like 12 or 14 ft (i might be off a bit on length). Think jousting.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Bill in San Jose View Post
                        Read "Hunting with a Bow and Arrow by Saxton Pope in 1923. He has a lot about Ishi's bow and arrows.

                        Remarkable, he routinely shot deer at 90 yards with a yew bow, wood arrows and home made steel broadheads.
                        Steel arrowheads were quite common once the "white man" came along and brought metal with them. My Dad had a few he had found. They were quite rusted but you could still tell that's what they were. Sure wish I had some pictures of some of that stuff to post here.

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                          #42
                          Wow, lots of interesting info here. I just want to add a little information about flint as it is used in knapping arrowheads. When I was a young (er) pup, I was a cub scout, then a boy scout and attended a flint knapping demonstration. The demonstrator was very careful about how adamantly he told us that the broken edge of a flint rock is VERY sharp. "Thirty percent sharper than a surgeon's scalpel." he said. Well, wouldn't you know it, there was a surgeon in the audience and he, being skeptical, picked up a small chip and ran his thumb across the edge. Well, that edge had a little "hook" on the tip and it sliced him dang near to the bone! I was amazed at how sharp that thing was, the guy didn't even know he was bleeding until someone pointed it out to him. Later in life, I'm now amazed at how ignorant that SURGEON was. I mean come on, the guy just told you that this stuff is 30% sharper than the tool that YOU USE daily to cut people open!

                          All that is to say that, regardless of the draw weight on their bows, the native Americans had a pretty formidable tool in their hands, be it for hunting or as a weapon for aggression/defense.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by txfireguy2003 View Post
                            Wow, lots of interesting info here. I just want to add a little information about flint as it is used in knapping arrowheads. When I was a young (er) pup, I was a cub scout, then a boy scout and attended a flint knapping demonstration. The demonstrator was very careful about how adamantly he told us that the broken edge of a flint rock is VERY sharp. "Thirty percent sharper than a surgeon's scalpel." he said. Well, wouldn't you know it, there was a surgeon in the audience and he, being skeptical, picked up a small chip and ran his thumb across the edge. Well, that edge had a little "hook" on the tip and it sliced him dang near to the bone! I was amazed at how sharp that thing was, the guy didn't even know he was bleeding until someone pointed it out to him. Later in life, I'm now amazed at how ignorant that SURGEON was. I mean come on, the guy just told you that this stuff is 30% sharper than the tool that YOU USE daily to cut people open!

                            All that is to say that, regardless of the draw weight on their bows, the native Americans had a pretty formidable tool in their hands, be it for hunting or as a weapon for aggression/defense.


                            You got me curious so I did a little internet digging. I came across another forum that had this to say:

                            It's hard to believe but the sharpest knives that have ever been used in recent years were mounted with stone flakes made of obsidian. A company called Aztecnics was manufacturing and selling surgical scalpels mounted with different sizes and shapes of obsidian blades. Good quality obsidian fractures down to single molecules which can produce a cutting edge 500 times sharper than the sharpest steel scalpel blade ("American Medical News", Nov. 2, 1984:21). On the cellular level an obsidian knife can cut between cells rather than tear the cells as a steel knife will do. A sharper cut will allow a wound to heal more rapidly with less scarring. High magnification of a steel scalpel blade edge looks like a serrated saw blade but an obsidian edge looks smooth.

                            Considering he sited his source, I'd say we're on to something. Amazing stuff.

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by TxAg View Post
                              You got me curious so I did a little internet digging. I came across another forum that had this to say:

                              It's hard to believe but the sharpest knives that have ever been used in recent years were mounted with stone flakes made of obsidian. A company called Aztecnics was manufacturing and selling surgical scalpels mounted with different sizes and shapes of obsidian blades. Good quality obsidian fractures down to single molecules which can produce a cutting edge 500 times sharper than the sharpest steel scalpel blade ("American Medical News", Nov. 2, 1984:21). On the cellular level an obsidian knife can cut between cells rather than tear the cells as a steel knife will do. A sharper cut will allow a wound to heal more rapidly with less scarring. High magnification of a steel scalpel blade edge looks like a serrated saw blade but an obsidian edge looks smooth.

                              Considering he sited his source, I'd say we're on to something. Amazing stuff.
                              better wear gloves while knapping

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                                #45
                                I've been told a sharp stone point has more pentrating power, shot with the same energy than a steel point. Can't back it up with fact, just what I was told. This is definitely interesting reading.

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