Tbot arrow rest re-clarification

[axisbuck24]

If, at sometime in the future TBoT has grown into shoots that acommodate all of these different classes (some with thier own ranges, maybe) it sure is gonna be fun to watch Bisch try to shoot them all.

That would be worth the drive! Run Bisch Run....you have 20 more rounds to go!

[Deb]

That would be worth the drive! Run Bisch Run....you have 20 more rounds to go!

What a hoot.

[Deb]

Deb,
Todd REST his case!

I'd hate to be married to someone who argues this well. I thought I was rock solid where I stood on this issue, and he keeps making the ground shake under me. Lol, it's whizzin' me off.

[RickBarbee]

For me if it has no wheels then it's a Traditional bow. Anything from a selfbow to a fully loaded Olympic style recurve with all the bells and whistles (sights, stabs, clickers, etc)...Van

I agree with Van completely.

I prefer wood bows, and prefer to shoot off the shelf.
Yes, it's just simpler, and I like it that way.

That said - just because I like it that way don't mean I'm in favor of turning away other dedicated recurve, and longbow shooters who prefer the more technical side of "Traditional Archery".

There's lots of recurve & longbow history that precedes most of our ages by a long shot, which includes types of equipment a lot do not consider traditional.

I say it's about time we stopped being so divisive, and welcome anyone who shoots a recurve or longbow to join us, regardless of their style, and equipment combination.

Of course that would mean some classifications adjustments to keep things on a level playing field, but I honestly believe it would be a huge positive move, and TBoT would be credited for paving the way.

Rick

[paulvrana]

Why not just put it to a vote?

[huntinpool]

Todd, I’m sure that metal bows pre-date what I consider traditional bows as well and as for releases. I was using a spike & rope on my recurve in the mid 70’s and tried a sight in ’62 or ’63 but that doesn’t make them traditional does it..

It wouldn’t bother me to see the rules say selfbow off the knuckle with wooden arrows and stone tips. That might be a little preclusive for most people but it would be traditional…. Hey, I don't even like take-down bows but I understand why Bob Lee invented the darn things and at least they are still mostly wood...

I just don’t think that Olympic recurves, sights, releases and stabilizers or metal risers, rests and carbon fiber limbs meet the definition or the spirit of traditional. But if folks want to call them traditional I reckon they can, it ain’t gonna hurt my feelings none… ok… well maybe a little..
But don’t be surprised if I don’t give them folks a little nudge once in a while neither...

For “ME” I draw the line at metal risers, carbon fiber limbs, sights, rests, mechanical release aids and stabilizers.. and such things..

I was just playing I understand your points very well and we all have different taste. If they ever allow a release on trad gear though, watch out

[fletcherfor2]

This is Martha (Fletcherfor2’s wife). Dusty chooses not to contribute further to this discussion, but I’ve watched this thread for awhile and find I’d like to respond with my two cents. I figure it's OK for me to do this in his account since Arvin uses Deb's occasionally

Some folks prefer to add aids and assists (rests, adjustable metal risers or limbs, some have even mentioned sights and releases) to their recurve or longbow, or use binoculars to hone in on that 12 ring. I have to assume they prefer to use these aids because they believe they improve their accuracy; otherwise, why add them?

My opinion is that if you prefer to use these aids while hunting to ensure you make the most accurate, ethical kill and achieve a greater percentage of animal recovery, then go for it – that’s your personal choice. But where is the thrill in winning a foam target archery tournament knowing you are competing against those who choose not to shoot with all that? It’s like some athletes chose to use steroids to bulk and muscle up – they did it because they knew it would give them an advantage. Other athletes chose to run harder, practice more, lift weights and build naturally…yes, some have won over the steroid users, but tell that to the women who ran against Marion Jones and lost, or the men who pitched to Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds. It’s just not a level playing field. The equipment is not the same. To carry the analogy further, I know some would claim “He/she won because he was shooting an awesome Sarrels/Horne/Black Widow/Lutkenhaus/Savage/Martin/Weaver, etc, etc. bow!” Well, true that, but as far as I know, none of these come from the bowyer with all the “aids”. They come traditional. Will this evolve to a sight being placed on a Selfbow?

Now, as others have suggested, TBoT could create a Bells and Whistles Unlimited class, and the rest of us could continue to shoot our plain ole bows against each other. IMHO, this might be a mistake. Why? Because it’s hard enough for those who run TBoT (an the clubs who host them) to set up and run shoots as we have them now. You might even have to set up a separate course altogether for the B&W folks (you’d slow the shoot down while you adjusted your sights, and with your glassing from the stake, and shouldn’t you already know where the scoring rings are on most targets?), and then you’d have to make sure (I would imagine) that a B&W guy/gal shot in the “correct” class, maintain 2 sets of scores.... It sounds like a lot of extra work for the unpaid volunteers of TRADITIONAL Bowhunters of Texas to add to their existing load, to accommodate the relative few. We kind of avoid attending shoots with a mixture of compound and trad shooters (though we do attend a few less well-attended club shoots with this combo), because we have to jump around the guys with their chairs, umbrellas, and other accoutrements, while they take 15 mins to shoot.

Would this extra class attract more shooters to TBoT shoots? Maybe, but I’m betting not all that many more. I mean, how many people who come to TBoT shoots use all this stuff NOW? I’m betting not all that many, but of course I might be wrong and there are hoards who do. I don’t pay much attention to others’ bows, except to admire the combination of woods and the beautiful lines.

It’s not as if the Bells and Whistles shooters don’t already have a well organized venue to compete. As someone pointed out, ASA has a Traditional Class and they just this year (I think) added Traditional Women. I believe ASA allows all the “extras”, and they are begging for more “trad” shooters to participate. If you enjoy foam target shoots, there you go.

Why can’t Traditional Bowhunters of Texas be who IT is, and ASA be who IT is?

Also, yes, it’s just plain fun to shoot and winning the buckle isn’t everything – but obviously winning IS important to those who add stuff perceiving this makes them more accurate – right? LOL, winning hasn't been a big issue for me for 2+ years, but when my new eyes get "sighted in", I hope to improve.

Some have already said they have no problem taking off their rest going forward. I believe the original complaint was that the notice was just awfully short. OK, that’s been acknowledged and apologized for. So now that it is what it is, why not just move forward with shooting off the shelf, no sights, no stabilizers, etc., just the bow and the archer - and KISS for all concerned?

Maybe more like a half-dollars worth of opinion instead of a mere 2 cents - sorry for the length.

[jreyna920]

How are binoculars going to make someone a better shot?

[Deb]

This is still Deb, but here is what Arvin sez..I just finished my 3 piece take down selfbow recently. So far it is staying together. I will shoot it in the recurve wood class. I like wood limbs. Quiiieeett. I would vote to keep trad trad.

[rubydog]

How are binoculars going to make someone a better shot?

By using bino's and most especially 10 power there is a way to figure out the distance by how much you have to focus to get the target to appear clear. The person will mark or make note of the markings on the adjustment wheel and can determine the distance to the target with a great deal of accuracy. For a gap, point of aim, string walker or other users of sighting methods this is a great advantage or so I am told.. Too much stinkin thinkin for my mind..

[jreyna920]

Oh wow I guess thats one way to use them.... Never thought of someone doing that. 3d being a scoring game, I would like to know where the rings are, Although alot of the time there in good spots, sometimes they just don't line up with angled shots or when targets start leaning...

[bm22]

since when did TBOT stop being a club and start being the Traditional police??????

if you are going to use wood and carbon arrows with fiberglass bows you are NOT traditional. i think it should be as it was, use bino's, rests and carbon arrows, gap, face walking, string walking whatever you want in the mens open. yes i know string walking or face walking was never allowed. and keep the "traditional" people in the Mens wood class or traditional class.

this club should not be limiting its members it should be expanding. no one that shoots a fiberglass bow is any more traditional than someone that shoots a Hoyt target bow and carbon arrows, i'm sry to tell you that..... glass was made in the 20th century its no more traditional than a metal riser bow because it has wood underneath the glass.

[Thumper]

I don't chase that 12 ring, I shoot 'em to kill 'em.

Deb, I've never ate a 12 ring, what do they taste like? I can hear Robert Duvall now, "I love the smell of 12 rings in the morning, they're the smell of Victory."...

With the 12 rings our 3D shoots have become very much like spot shoots. This is where the time and efforts come into play to make things work for everyone with equipment rules and regulations, and its a headache.

Thumb-rings date back to the early 1500's were they pre-trad or post -trad.. No trad archers are using releases now, are they untraditional?. What year do you think we switched from Traditional to Modern traditional?

Huntinpool, I'm going with our Founding Fathers. P&Y, Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, and Bob Lee, I think they're the ones who have defined traditional archery in my country, not so sure about yours though...

[Deb]

Well, Thumper, I don't get very many of those 12 rings but I have to say they are pretty darn sweet.

[M.E.B.]

Well I guess I will weigh in here too.

I guess not too many people shoot wood arrows any longer and most who do don't hunt with them. I shot and hunted with them in the past but they got expensive, hard to find and the weights varied. I like them and the idea of them but they got to be a pain.

As such more people shoot the Open class because they are shooting aluminum or carbon arrows. After someone got beaten by someone with a rest it must have put a sour taste in their mouth. And yes a rest makes it easier to tune a bow and are more forgiving. That being said most of the guys that WIN with a rest could probably whup you with or without it.

The thing I liked about this club is that is mostly about having a good time. I think we lost our innocence after the mystery winner a couple of years back and that is a shame. Take care. Mike.