Trigger upgrades on EDC pistols

[Bill]

I don’t know if there’s a yes or no answer to doing a trigger upgrade on your EDC. I’ve read many articles on self defense and concealed carry web sites saying a prosecutor (criminal case) or lawyer (civil case) will use any modifications to the self defense pistol against you in an otherwise justified use of deadly force in self-defense. There are others saying there are no court cases to point to where it happened.

Does anybody know of specific cases where a modified pistol trigger was used against somebody?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloodtrail18]

I don’t know if there’s a yes or no answer to doing a trigger upgrade on your EDC. I’ve read many articles on self defense and concealed carry web sites saying a prosecutor (criminal case) or lawyer (civil case) will use any modifications to the self defense pistol against you in an otherwise justified use of deadly force in self-defense. There are others saying there are no court cases to point to where it happened.

Does anybody know of specific cases where a modified pistol trigger was used against somebody?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There was a case a while back where a lawyer tried to use an engraved dust cover on an AR against a cop in a lawful shooting.

The trigger is usually the first thing I change on my pistols but my EDC is all stock for this very reason. I even buy factory ammo for it when I reload 9mm.

[Clay C]

There was a case a while back where a lawyer tried to use an engraved dust cover on an AR against a cop in a lawful shooting.

The trigger is usually the first thing I change on my pistols but my EDC is all stock for this very reason. I even buy factory ammo for it when I reload 9mm.

Was this the moron in Arizona who had "You're F%^&$#" on his dust cover?

Was that shoot determined to be lawful? That was one of the more disturbing videos I've seen.

[Quackerbox]

I saw a picture of a new boot with 'Say when' tattoed on his strong side forearm.


As for triggers, I cant speak for every firearms lab but the one we use doesnt measure or check anything other than functionality. Thats not to say the scum defense lawyer cant hire someone. Either way, if youre justified to shoot with a 12# trigger youre good on a 1.5# trigger. Criminally.

[Bill]

Good point, thank you.
I can't find a reference to a court case where somebody was convicted or had a civil judgement against them because they did a modification to the pistol, either themselves or by a gunsmith/ armorer.

[TacticalCowboy]

I’ve never worried about it. Same with hand loads.

[Jeremy7306]

I’ll keep all both my edc pistols fully stock except for sights, more so because for all intensive purposes that is how it is supposed to be from the Glock factory. Anything else leaves doubt in my mind including aftermarket magazines. But that’s just me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[duckhunter175]

There are cases of folks blaming equipment for liability in bad shootings- very rare but if you look at many PD policies they restrict aftermarket parts that affect the function of the weapon. The policy is probably two fold; one reduce liability and second stop self proclaimed gunsmiths from jacking up guns that are city property and causing failures when your life is on the line.

I don't know what the magnitude or ratio would be but witnessed mechanical failures on the firing line are much much higher with modified pistols (springs, connectors, etc) than stock pistols.

So my $.02 is for an EDC I will leave it as much alone as I can when it comes to mechanical function.

[tvc184]

There are cases of folks blaming equipment for liability in bad shootings- very rare but if you look at many PD policies they restrict aftermarket parts that affect the function of the weapon. The policy is probably two fold; one reduce liability and second stop self proclaimed gunsmiths from jacking up guns that are city property and causing failures when your life is on the line.

I don't know what the magnitude or ratio would be but witnessed mechanical failures on the firing line are much much higher with modified pistols (springs, connectors, etc) than stock pistols.

So my $.02 is for an EDC I will leave it as much alone as I can when it comes to mechanical function.

Except for swat, our guns aren’t city property but policy absolutely forbids any modification other than sights and grip.

On kind of a funny note, one of the firearms instructors that I teach with at the regional academy, was a 1911 .45ACP freak. He brought out his just received high end, couple of thousand dollars modified big name 1911 like maybe Wilson Combat or Apocalypse. I don’t remember but he could not stop talking about how good the gun was supposed to be, it would eat anything he loaded, would smoke our Glocks and M&Ps, etc.

So while the cadets were on their lunch break, we shot our pistols and did our shooting like 12” plates from 50 yards with compact easily concealed pistols including .380s. The 1911 fan boy brought out “The Gun” with ball ammo, duty hollow points, etc.

He got so hot that you could fry an egg on his head but not the 1911 because he could not get through any magazine without a malfunction. He had maybe a half a dozen magazines and all of them malfunctioned so I don’t think that was the issue. Angry would not sufficiently describe his mood.

We probably didn’t help the issue…. … with comments like, for $375 you could have gotten a police price Glock with 3 magazines.

I am glad the gun cost him so much money because he was about to throw it in the lake.

[TexasBob]

I figure I can't improve on the reliability and safety as designed by glock. On a bad day, I wont care if the trigger is a little gritty or a heavy pull. My woods and other defense guns are stock. Get a 1911 for fun if you want to tinker just my opinion- Free, and well worth what you paid for it.

[STX_Shooter]

I guess any aftermarket modification to your EDC pistol can be used against you. Sights, mag capacity, laser, lights, trigger work, any extended releases, stippling, you name it. I carry a Glock 17 and a Sig P365 and both are not stock. How’s that saying go? “I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6”

[Bill]

I asked a friend with 15 years law enforcement experience.

He said he was not aware of 1 case (anywhere) where a handgun used in justifiable self-defense with a trigger upgrade done used against a defendant. He also doubted if police labs ever look at the pistol’s trigger pull and pre snd reset travel.

He can’t modify because of department policy and he has put so many thousand rounds downrange he’s so used to his service weapons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tvc184]

If you shot the wrong person, you are in trouble. The trigger won’t matter.

If the shooting was justified, the trigger won’t matter.

I believe that many (or most) police departments have a policy of not modifying internals/firearm triggers. That most likely isn’t because of an accidental shooting as much as the firearm (usually handgun) not working when needed. In 37 years I saw or know of 4 modified (supposedly improved) handguns used or intended to be used on duty that didn’t go bang when the trigger was pulled.

In my opinion ….

[Bill]

Interesting point about the 4 gun failures. If a trigger was updated and several hundred rounds fired with no issue, what failure could cause the problem? A broken spring?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tvc184]

Interesting point about the 4 gun failures. If a trigger was updated and several hundred rounds fired with no issue, what failure could cause the problem? A broken spring?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn’t say all triggers but “modified”.

None were like a 10 year old modification with 10,000 rounds down the tube.

One was an aftermarket Glock barrel. Drop it is with the supplied spring and it is guaranteed to reduce the recoil and be ultra-reliable. A good friend carried it on duty. Read reviews, dropped it in and went to work. He was telling me about it one day and I was asking how it work. Oops… notwithstanding the policy violation which I was not concerned with, he had never tested it. A trip to the range and he was back to the original Glock parts. The guaranteed setup didn’t cycle a couple of times per magazine.

Back in the days of revolvers I had two friends on patrol from two different agencies. One had a modified Colt Trooper and one a SW something or other… probably a Model 19. Smooth guns. Both started having light primary strikes and fail to fire issues.

One was another Glock which another officer worked on and I don’t remember exactly what it was (about 20 years ago). As a Glock armorer I checked out the G17 which he had been carrying with the function tests. His whole slide fell off. I think the slide lock was installed incorrectly.

I thought of another but it is a 1911 so probably shouldn’t count. An officer had it modified from one of the high end, well known companies. While teaching at the basic police academy we had time after lunch and he brought out his toy and wanted to qualify so he could carry on duty. He could not get through a magazine without a malfunction. To say he was angry would be an understatement.

Give me some time and I can come up with others. The point is that I was a firearms instructor for my department and the regional academy from 1992 until my retirement in 2021. I have shot or instructed officers with thousands of different handguns. All of the malfunctioning handguns that I can remember were modified. That was the point and conclusion of my post. A couple were trigger issues and some were others. That is why most departments require certified armorers or a requirement to have the original company do repairs (which I don’t remember even happening). Those weapons are designed to be as close to guaranteed function as possible. Are the springs a little heavier than maybe needed? Probably but they are designed to go bang and then feed the next round every time.

Certainly a factory firearm can have issues but I remember none out of thousands. I doubt that many officers modified or worked on their weapons yet I can remember several.

As you said in a prior comment, you have an officer friend who can’t modify his weapon due to policy. Do officers do it anyway? Yes and I mentioned a few. You can see the results.

To the points in my first comment:

1. If you shoot the wrong person, the trigger likely won’t matter.

2. If it is a justified shooting, the trigger likely won’t matter.

3. Policy agencies typically have a no modification policy for the reasons I listed. It isn’t because of #1 and #2 but for a much more reliability of working when it is needed the most.