Scope Mounted Thermal's

[kingfisher_jr]

Posted this the other day, but on the wrong forum..

I am currently looking to purchase a clip on thermal (Scope Mounted). I have been doing a fair amount of research but I do not know anyone personally who has one, nor have I used on myself. I would like to get some peer reviews on the image quality, durability, ease of use, ect. They are a fairly significant investment so I want to try and get the right fit for me.

I have been looking at a few different models (Leica, Pulsar, ATN, AGN, Burris, ect.) I am leaning towards the Leica Calonox. Swarovski is also planning to release one in spring of 2022 but it will be about 1.5X the price of the Leica.

I have only been looking at models that mount directly to your scope, not the rail-to-scope mount models. Would really like to hear any first hand experience with a direct scope mount thermal before I make my final decision.

[Outdoor Legacy]

Hey Kingfisher, I'd be glad to throw in my 2 cents on the subject. We're the TBH thermal and NV sponsor and this has been my full time business since 2013. We're dealers for every major thermal manufacturer, except ATN. We dropped them many years ago due to extremely poor reliability, terrible customer service and some business practices that are unacceptable in my opinion. We're dealers for Pulsar, N-Vision, iRay/Inifiray, AGM, Bering, Zeiss and Trijicon. If there is a brand we're not a dealer for, we usually have a reason for it that we'd be glad to discuss and answer questions about.

I'd be glad to talk more over the phone rather than typing a small novel here but I'll throw out a few thoughts.

For 99.5% of hunters, clip-on thermals are a terrible choice. A dedicated rail mounted scope of the same or less money will always provide a better image quality, a better experience and a better value for less money. However, for .5% of hunters, clip-ons are the right choice. The person that a clip-on is usually right for is the guy who has a high end custom rifle with a high end glass optic and it's his "baby" and he only wants to hunt with it AND he's not really going to hunt much. Or maybe it's a guy who is only going on one or two hunts per year and he doesn't want to take a scope off a rifle or dedicate one just for night hunting; he's got the money and understands it's not the best investment but it fits his needs. Those are the positives of a clip-on.

The negatives are many, some of which I mentioned above. The first thing you'll find is it throws the balance of the rifle off. You're adding 1lb+ to the end of your scope and it extends off the scope another 6" towards the barrel. That's a lot of weight out on the end of the rifle. Clip-on's are best used in conjunction with very low magnification scopes, 1x is ideal but a maximum of 3x base mag for the daytime optic is where you'll want to start. Because you are literally zooming your scope in on a fixed display screen, once you zoom up past 4x-6x (depending on the clip-on) you'll begin to no longer see the entire screen, you'll just continue to zoom in and crop the screen smaller and smaller. No matter how good your daytime scope is, you're still looking down a 12" tube through multiple glass lenses at a computer screen. Besides the cost being more for a clip-on compared to a dedicated thermal scope of the same quality, you will have to buy adapters to attach to the bell of every scope you want to use the clip-on with. And last, since the market demand is so small for a clip-on, their resale value is usually very poor and the likely buyers are going to be first time users who aren't exactly sure what they are buying.

I know....I'm Negative Nancy! But I'm just being honest with you. We've sold several thousand thermal scopes this year (not an exaggeration nor a brag) and I believe we've sold 2 clip-ons this year. The joke among all the full time good dealers in the industry that I'm friends with is, "everyone wants a clip-on until they own a clip-on or until they've used a real thermal scope". At the end of the day, it's usually cheaper to buy a high quality thermal rifle scope and dedicate an entire rifle setup to it. Or, with the modern high end return to zero QD mounts, you can take the scope(s) off and on with virtually no POI shift.

But, let me turn the tables a little....there are some new clip-ons coming next year that are going to be better than ever and if it fits YOUR needs, don't hesitate to buy one. There are things in life that don't make sense for everyone but they make perfect sense for some people. They are actually the best choice for some people. If this is you, go for it and ignore everything negative you hear, including what I've said. There are some clip-on users who wouldn't have it any other way. They are actually fairly popular in Europe since bolt action rifles are usually their only option and many traditional thermals aren't great for bolt actions but that's why Pulsar (a European company) shook up the worldwide thermal market in 2019 when they created the Thermion that looks and mounts just like a daytime optic.

Ok, so I lied, I typed a novel.haha! I'm sure some others will chime in here and have some personal experience as well and explain why they love them and howthey work well for their needs. Listen to what they have to say as well. When talking to others about clip-ons, be sure to ask how much experience they have hunting with a dedicated thermal rifle scope and why they choose the clip-on over the dedicated scope.

Very last thing, I promise, I know I come off like a salesman who doesn't sell clip-ons and that's why I don't want you to buy them, but that's not true. I actually have several thermal clip-ons in stock sitting in my warehouse and I'll be buying some of the new models that are coming out soon because like I said, if it works for the customer and he happens to be in that .5% of people who need it, I want to sell it to him.

Good luck and feel free to give us a call any time. (877)350-1818

Jason

[aac_shooter]

Scope Mounted Thermal's

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[Mitchell8]

That’s an awesome right up! Didn’t know anything about clip on thermals now i feel like an expert

[kingfisher_jr]

[QUOTE=Outdoor Legacy;15994635]

Jason, thanks for the awesome response. That was a lot of great information and I appreciate you taking the time to write it up.

I have used a few high end thermal's before but never a clip on, which is why I am seeking more information before I make my decision. I honestly assumed that there must be some major downfalls to the clip on thermal system. My thinking is that they would be much more popular if they were as good as they seemed. I do not know anyone who owns a clip-on, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone who owns one. Statistically, this just can't be a good sign for them.

If I was to purchase one it would predominantly be used on a high-end bolt rifle (suppressed), with a high end scope. I like the idea of being able to put the thermal in my bag, deer hunt in the evening, and hog/varmint hunt from the same stand at dark (without having to carry another rifle.) There are a lot of aspects of the clip-on that are appealing but again the sheer fact that I do not see anyone using them can't be a good sign.

Once I do decide which route I want to go I will be sure to give you a shout about purchasing one.

Thanks again.

[imyomama]

been there done that ... lots to get them adjusted right / re-sighted in .
then you realize if you use the digital zoom in them poi shifts again. if you're looking to expand your vocabulary of cuss words , go for it ... save time and frustration and get a dedicated thermal . i use a reap-ir , and a qd mount on my day optic and swap at will with no issues ...

now long ago i used clip on NV and they worked ok with no poi shift ... but thermal still blow those away.

[russ_wit91084]

https://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830452&highlight=trijicon

[gingib]

I would not ever buy a clip on. No benefit and more of a PIA