I bought the gun back in April, I think, been a while. The gun was not listed as being nonfunctioning or anything along those lines. The same auction did have a bunch of guns at the end, that were listed as needing repair or non functioning. This gun was not anywhere near the end of the auction and it was very obviously not in working condition when I got it.
When I went to pick it up from the auction company, they brought the gun out open, because you could not close the action. I was a bit irritated, but I had a L.C. Smith, something to start with.
I was not planning on buying a L.C. Smith anytime soon, because I looked them up on many different sites and saw the prices, and knew that they were normally out of my price range most of the time. Sometimes I have extra money and could afford $1800 for a gun, but dang sure don't let my wife know I did that. So I was very happy to pick this one up for $550, then finding out it was in the condition it was in, it was obvious I did not get a smoking deal.
Before I picked up the L.C. Smith, I had bought a Savage Fox Model B, that I narrowed down to a 1975 production gun. It's in good condition, appearance wise. But when I went to shoot it, a couple months after I got it, I found the left barrel would only fire, about once in four attempts. So it needed repair.
So for many months, I had two side by side 12 ga. shotguns, that both had problems. I bought firing pins, hammer springs and firing pin retaining screws. Someone had made a firing pin for the left barrel, it was not even close to being correct, caused some new problems that did not exist previously. So I got the firing pins and hammer springs. Then made a tool to reinstall the hammers in the gun. Got the gun back together and functioning.
So I had one functioning double barrel shotgun. I figured I would eventually put it up for sale, once I get the L.C Smith working, since that's what I really wanted. But have since decided, that I will probably keep both.
So around the same time I ordered parts for the Savage, I ordered the parts that Numrich's had in stock, that I needed for the L.C. Smith. There was a screw for the trigger plate, that was in very bad shape, someone drilled a hole through it and then hammered a easy out, in the screw to remove it. So that screw I was not able to find anywhere, I looked all over the place. I did order a new barrel release lever and then there is a small piece the connects the lever to a cylindrical barrel latch. That piece was broken in half. Then there was a spring that returns the barrel release lever back to the closed position. That spring was broken. Then the safety would slide too far to the rear and off of the detent spring. When that happened, you would have to take the gun apart and put the safety, back on the detent spring. But usually the next time I would try to put it on safety, I would push it past the end of the detent spring again. I was not able to get the detent spring either.
So after getting the Savage working correctly, I decided to work on the L.C. Smith the next time I had time. I started on it, found the new barrel release lever I bought did not come close to fitting the gun. I was a bit irritated, can't do much at that point, I had the parts I bought, for probably eight months. Then the small part that connects the lever to the cylindrical barrel latch, was also made wrong. The shaft, that goes into a hole on the bottom rear of the cylindrical latch, was too long. So the hole through the small part that turns the cylindrical latch, and the hole in the release lever would not line up. So I had to put the small part in the lathe and cut the step back farther and then shorten the shaft. Doing that work, fixed that part.
But the release lever was still a problem. The new lever the head was way too thick, did not fit flush with the top of the frame of the gun, like the factory. Nor did the lever follow the contour of the top of the frame, it was not even close, nothing like the factory original part. The original lever, was missing a small locating shaft on the bottom end. It most likely had been worn off, but may have been filed or cut off, by someone who thought they had a better idea. I really don't know why the bottom of the lever was missing. Also there was a threaded hole in the bottom end of the shaft, on the bottom of the lever. Well someone tried to drill and tap that hole out. They drilled the hole off center and very crooked. So on the bottom end the hole was egg shaped and not round, then down inside there was the origina hole that went straight in and a new hole that went in at an angle. That was another reason I welded up the end of the shaft.
So I welded up the original, made a small fixture to hold the original lever and then chucked it up in my lathe and turned it down. Then cut it off at the correct length. Then I drilled a hole in the end, with the part still in the fixture and that fixture chucked up in my rotary table, three jaw chuck. I had that bolted on the table of the mill. Then used the mill as a drill press, and drilled the hole in the end of the shaft. I got the hole drilled about 1/2" deep or so, then the end of the drill bit broke off. I think I was using a number 43 drill bit. The threaded hole was originally a 4-40. I was trying to reuse the original screw, that went into the bottom of that shaft. I was able to tap the hole out a ways, then started hearing a crunching noise, like the tap had hit something hard and broke some teeth off. I removed the tap, found it was fine, put it back, ran it in slowly, then heard the crunching noise again, stopped, back the tap out, the tap was good. I determined the tap was breaking up the end of the drill bit in the bottom of the hole. Pretty sure that's what was going on, so I was being very gentile. The third time, I hear the crunching noise, I pulled the tap back out to see the end was broken off.
I tried to break the tap and drill bit up with a very small pin punch, but that just bent the pin punch. So I went to plan B which I had come up with while thinking about the crooked hole in the bottom of the shaft. Plan B was to cut off the shaft on the end of the lever, drill the hole out to a larger 6-32 and tap it. Then find a 6-32 machine screw, then drill and tap the end of the lever for the 6-32 threads. Then build up the shank of the screw, to the diameter of the shaft that was on the end of the lever, that I cut off. So looking at a number 6-32 machine screw, it was not hard to see, that welding up the shaft to build up metal, to machine down, was going to be very hard to do, without making a mess of the screw. So I came up with the idea of putting two 6-32 nuts on a 6-32 machine screw and turning them on the lathe, to .200". That was the OD of the original shaft on the bottom end of the lever. Once I had those two turned to .200" OD. I just threaded them on the 6-32 screw, that I had turned the head down to the correct OD. So it would fit in the bottom of the gun.
So plan B worked, that fixed the lever. So I then decided to TIG up the other trigger plate screw that had been screwed up very badly. I very carefully welded up the head of that screw. Then put it in the lathe, turned the lathe on and the ground the head back flat with my angle grinder, with a sand paddle wheel. That cleaned up the screw head quickly. I then threaded the screw into a 6-32 nut and clamped the nut in a vice and cut a new screw driver slot in the screw head, with a hacksaw. So I had that screw fixed also.
The butt stock had two pieces on the bottom side, that butt up against the bottom of the frame, broken off. Looking on the internet, seems the wood on the bottom from of the butt stock, commonly broke off, probably because the wood is pretty thin there. So I came up with a idea, to build that wood back up with some Accuglass gel. I got it built back up and sanded down. That closed up the two big holes on the bottom side of the gun, so it won't get as much dirt or other debris inside the gun. That repair does not look very good at this point, I am going to try and find a way to put some color on the Accuglass and hope it looks decent.
So while I had the Accuglass out, I got the idea to fill in the rear end of the channel the safety button slides in, to limit it's rearward travel. Well the Accuglass, turned out to be a very good fix for the safety button over traveling, it does not over travel at all now.
So I now either need to replace the butt stock or both stocks or get a recoil pad on the butt stock. The gun had a very old aftermarket red rubber recoil pad, that did not fit the gun very well at all and the pad was rotten and breaking up in pieces, when I got the gun. The gun was made in 1901, so I am 100% sure, it did not have a red rubber recoil pad, like what was common in the 1950s and 1960s. I had ordered the correct original butt plate for that generation of 12 ga. L.C. Smith. But the stock on the gun has been sanded down, most likely to remove dings or scratches. So the original butt plate is too wide and too tall. I am not going to sand the butt plate to fit the stock. I have taken enough measurements of the stock, to know it definitely been sanded down quite a bit. So I am going to order a new sandable recoil pad, that looks better on the gun, that the recoil pad that was on it. But I am will eventually replace at least the butt stock, maybe both stocks on the gun. I would like to get some very nice wood and make a pair of stocks.
So as of two days ago, I was sure the gun was in functioning condition, at last. But it was dark when I got home, the last two days, so I did not take it out and try it. Today, I got up, then looked for a screw, to replace a screw that holds the ejector in place on my old 16 ga. Stevens 620a. I found a screw that is of the correct thread and has a head of the correct diameter. I just needed to shorten it. So I shortened the screw and put the Stevens back together. It too has been nonfunctioning for moths, because I dropped the screw that holds the ejector in place and lost the screw. Then I have not been able to find that screw anywhere.
So as of today, I should of had both double barrel 12 ga. shotguns and the 16 ga. pump, in working condition for the first time in a while. So I took all three out today and shot them. They all functioned great. I was a bit nervous shooting the old L.C. Smith, but it worked very well, no problems.
After shooting the three shotguns. I had the two double barrel 12 ga. guns leaning next to each other and noticed the end of the barrels on the two were very noticeably different sizes. The L.C. Smith barrels look noticeably smaller in diameter and the width of the two barrels looks noticeably narrower than the Savage 12 ga. So I measured them both. The L.C. Smith bore ID measured .691". The Savage measures .712" ID. The L.C. Smith measures 1.628" across the outside of both barrels. The Savage measures 1.788" across the outside ends of both barrels.
So the bore diameter of the L.C. Smith is .011" smaller. I am not sure what the choke is of either gun. I plan on trying to find info on determining what choke the barrels are on both gun. The Savage has 28" barrels. the L.C. Smith has 30" barrels. They are both double barrel 12 ga. shotguns, but beyond that, they are very different guns. The Savage made in 1975, has a large beaver tail forearm, the L.C. Smith, made in 1901, has a slim forearm. The barrels on the Savage are larger in diameter and spaced farther apart. I have read the Savage Fox Model B guns are noticeably beefier than the English style shotguns.
I have never worked on any double barreled guns before I bought the Savage Fox model B. So after having taken both the Savage and the L.C. Smith apart, I have to say, I am impressed with the L.C. Smith. Definitely a lot easier to work on, but the Savage is most likely a stronger gun. The Savage is not a bad design, just definitely harder to work on.
When I went to pick it up from the auction company, they brought the gun out open, because you could not close the action. I was a bit irritated, but I had a L.C. Smith, something to start with.
I was not planning on buying a L.C. Smith anytime soon, because I looked them up on many different sites and saw the prices, and knew that they were normally out of my price range most of the time. Sometimes I have extra money and could afford $1800 for a gun, but dang sure don't let my wife know I did that. So I was very happy to pick this one up for $550, then finding out it was in the condition it was in, it was obvious I did not get a smoking deal.
Before I picked up the L.C. Smith, I had bought a Savage Fox Model B, that I narrowed down to a 1975 production gun. It's in good condition, appearance wise. But when I went to shoot it, a couple months after I got it, I found the left barrel would only fire, about once in four attempts. So it needed repair.
So for many months, I had two side by side 12 ga. shotguns, that both had problems. I bought firing pins, hammer springs and firing pin retaining screws. Someone had made a firing pin for the left barrel, it was not even close to being correct, caused some new problems that did not exist previously. So I got the firing pins and hammer springs. Then made a tool to reinstall the hammers in the gun. Got the gun back together and functioning.
So I had one functioning double barrel shotgun. I figured I would eventually put it up for sale, once I get the L.C Smith working, since that's what I really wanted. But have since decided, that I will probably keep both.
So around the same time I ordered parts for the Savage, I ordered the parts that Numrich's had in stock, that I needed for the L.C. Smith. There was a screw for the trigger plate, that was in very bad shape, someone drilled a hole through it and then hammered a easy out, in the screw to remove it. So that screw I was not able to find anywhere, I looked all over the place. I did order a new barrel release lever and then there is a small piece the connects the lever to a cylindrical barrel latch. That piece was broken in half. Then there was a spring that returns the barrel release lever back to the closed position. That spring was broken. Then the safety would slide too far to the rear and off of the detent spring. When that happened, you would have to take the gun apart and put the safety, back on the detent spring. But usually the next time I would try to put it on safety, I would push it past the end of the detent spring again. I was not able to get the detent spring either.
So after getting the Savage working correctly, I decided to work on the L.C. Smith the next time I had time. I started on it, found the new barrel release lever I bought did not come close to fitting the gun. I was a bit irritated, can't do much at that point, I had the parts I bought, for probably eight months. Then the small part that connects the lever to the cylindrical barrel latch, was also made wrong. The shaft, that goes into a hole on the bottom rear of the cylindrical latch, was too long. So the hole through the small part that turns the cylindrical latch, and the hole in the release lever would not line up. So I had to put the small part in the lathe and cut the step back farther and then shorten the shaft. Doing that work, fixed that part.
But the release lever was still a problem. The new lever the head was way too thick, did not fit flush with the top of the frame of the gun, like the factory. Nor did the lever follow the contour of the top of the frame, it was not even close, nothing like the factory original part. The original lever, was missing a small locating shaft on the bottom end. It most likely had been worn off, but may have been filed or cut off, by someone who thought they had a better idea. I really don't know why the bottom of the lever was missing. Also there was a threaded hole in the bottom end of the shaft, on the bottom of the lever. Well someone tried to drill and tap that hole out. They drilled the hole off center and very crooked. So on the bottom end the hole was egg shaped and not round, then down inside there was the origina hole that went straight in and a new hole that went in at an angle. That was another reason I welded up the end of the shaft.
So I welded up the original, made a small fixture to hold the original lever and then chucked it up in my lathe and turned it down. Then cut it off at the correct length. Then I drilled a hole in the end, with the part still in the fixture and that fixture chucked up in my rotary table, three jaw chuck. I had that bolted on the table of the mill. Then used the mill as a drill press, and drilled the hole in the end of the shaft. I got the hole drilled about 1/2" deep or so, then the end of the drill bit broke off. I think I was using a number 43 drill bit. The threaded hole was originally a 4-40. I was trying to reuse the original screw, that went into the bottom of that shaft. I was able to tap the hole out a ways, then started hearing a crunching noise, like the tap had hit something hard and broke some teeth off. I removed the tap, found it was fine, put it back, ran it in slowly, then heard the crunching noise again, stopped, back the tap out, the tap was good. I determined the tap was breaking up the end of the drill bit in the bottom of the hole. Pretty sure that's what was going on, so I was being very gentile. The third time, I hear the crunching noise, I pulled the tap back out to see the end was broken off.
I tried to break the tap and drill bit up with a very small pin punch, but that just bent the pin punch. So I went to plan B which I had come up with while thinking about the crooked hole in the bottom of the shaft. Plan B was to cut off the shaft on the end of the lever, drill the hole out to a larger 6-32 and tap it. Then find a 6-32 machine screw, then drill and tap the end of the lever for the 6-32 threads. Then build up the shank of the screw, to the diameter of the shaft that was on the end of the lever, that I cut off. So looking at a number 6-32 machine screw, it was not hard to see, that welding up the shaft to build up metal, to machine down, was going to be very hard to do, without making a mess of the screw. So I came up with the idea of putting two 6-32 nuts on a 6-32 machine screw and turning them on the lathe, to .200". That was the OD of the original shaft on the bottom end of the lever. Once I had those two turned to .200" OD. I just threaded them on the 6-32 screw, that I had turned the head down to the correct OD. So it would fit in the bottom of the gun.
So plan B worked, that fixed the lever. So I then decided to TIG up the other trigger plate screw that had been screwed up very badly. I very carefully welded up the head of that screw. Then put it in the lathe, turned the lathe on and the ground the head back flat with my angle grinder, with a sand paddle wheel. That cleaned up the screw head quickly. I then threaded the screw into a 6-32 nut and clamped the nut in a vice and cut a new screw driver slot in the screw head, with a hacksaw. So I had that screw fixed also.
The butt stock had two pieces on the bottom side, that butt up against the bottom of the frame, broken off. Looking on the internet, seems the wood on the bottom from of the butt stock, commonly broke off, probably because the wood is pretty thin there. So I came up with a idea, to build that wood back up with some Accuglass gel. I got it built back up and sanded down. That closed up the two big holes on the bottom side of the gun, so it won't get as much dirt or other debris inside the gun. That repair does not look very good at this point, I am going to try and find a way to put some color on the Accuglass and hope it looks decent.
So while I had the Accuglass out, I got the idea to fill in the rear end of the channel the safety button slides in, to limit it's rearward travel. Well the Accuglass, turned out to be a very good fix for the safety button over traveling, it does not over travel at all now.
So I now either need to replace the butt stock or both stocks or get a recoil pad on the butt stock. The gun had a very old aftermarket red rubber recoil pad, that did not fit the gun very well at all and the pad was rotten and breaking up in pieces, when I got the gun. The gun was made in 1901, so I am 100% sure, it did not have a red rubber recoil pad, like what was common in the 1950s and 1960s. I had ordered the correct original butt plate for that generation of 12 ga. L.C. Smith. But the stock on the gun has been sanded down, most likely to remove dings or scratches. So the original butt plate is too wide and too tall. I am not going to sand the butt plate to fit the stock. I have taken enough measurements of the stock, to know it definitely been sanded down quite a bit. So I am going to order a new sandable recoil pad, that looks better on the gun, that the recoil pad that was on it. But I am will eventually replace at least the butt stock, maybe both stocks on the gun. I would like to get some very nice wood and make a pair of stocks.
So as of two days ago, I was sure the gun was in functioning condition, at last. But it was dark when I got home, the last two days, so I did not take it out and try it. Today, I got up, then looked for a screw, to replace a screw that holds the ejector in place on my old 16 ga. Stevens 620a. I found a screw that is of the correct thread and has a head of the correct diameter. I just needed to shorten it. So I shortened the screw and put the Stevens back together. It too has been nonfunctioning for moths, because I dropped the screw that holds the ejector in place and lost the screw. Then I have not been able to find that screw anywhere.
So as of today, I should of had both double barrel 12 ga. shotguns and the 16 ga. pump, in working condition for the first time in a while. So I took all three out today and shot them. They all functioned great. I was a bit nervous shooting the old L.C. Smith, but it worked very well, no problems.
After shooting the three shotguns. I had the two double barrel 12 ga. guns leaning next to each other and noticed the end of the barrels on the two were very noticeably different sizes. The L.C. Smith barrels look noticeably smaller in diameter and the width of the two barrels looks noticeably narrower than the Savage 12 ga. So I measured them both. The L.C. Smith bore ID measured .691". The Savage measures .712" ID. The L.C. Smith measures 1.628" across the outside of both barrels. The Savage measures 1.788" across the outside ends of both barrels.
So the bore diameter of the L.C. Smith is .011" smaller. I am not sure what the choke is of either gun. I plan on trying to find info on determining what choke the barrels are on both gun. The Savage has 28" barrels. the L.C. Smith has 30" barrels. They are both double barrel 12 ga. shotguns, but beyond that, they are very different guns. The Savage made in 1975, has a large beaver tail forearm, the L.C. Smith, made in 1901, has a slim forearm. The barrels on the Savage are larger in diameter and spaced farther apart. I have read the Savage Fox Model B guns are noticeably beefier than the English style shotguns.
I have never worked on any double barreled guns before I bought the Savage Fox model B. So after having taken both the Savage and the L.C. Smith apart, I have to say, I am impressed with the L.C. Smith. Definitely a lot easier to work on, but the Savage is most likely a stronger gun. The Savage is not a bad design, just definitely harder to work on.
Comment