2020 TBH/APR Final vote

[lungbuster1985]

I’m looking at the $2500 Mavericks, none of them have carbon barrels, defiance actions, or McMillan stocks. So y’all need to stop telling people they can get #3 built for $2500 outside of this deal. Heck it might not even make it under 2500 on the deal. No pricing has been disclosed yet. True, It might not be the biggest discount of the bunch. But if it saves you some money on a gun that you want, I don’t see how it’s a wasted vote.

[mikeyb_23]

There's two Mavericks posted on their Instagram for under $2500. Sweet looking guns I might add. I'm not sure what all they are built with though.

[bmac]

I’m looking at the $2500 Mavericks, none of them have carbon barrels, defiance actions, or McMillan stocks. So y’all need to stop telling people they can get #3 built for $2500 outside of this deal. Heck it might not even make it under 2500 on the deal. No pricing has been disclosed yet. True, It might not be the biggest discount of the bunch. But if it saves you some money on a gun that you want, I don’t see how it’s a wasted vote.

Robert mentioned it was close to the maverick so that was where the 2500 came from. Based on pics might be closer to the classic hunter then maverick but who knows. Either way you cut the deal it will be a great deal. I’m still torn between the options and have till Friday to figure it out .


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[lungbuster1985]

Robert mentioned it was close to the maverick so that was where the 2500 came from. Based on pics might be closer to the classic hunter then maverick but who knows. Either way you cut the deal it will be a great deal. I’m still torn between the options and have till Friday to figure it out .


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I didn’t mean to direct that specifically at you, please don’t take it that way. I’m torn also... makes it even tougher that I’m not even sure if what I really want is even practical. I guess I’m going to dig through the original thread again and look for something I may have missed.

[Mike D]

Is the sendero lite barrel carbon fiber with the Mcwoody?

I’d like to know this as well.


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[docmay]

#3

Give me the woody!

[Stick1]

Have y’all seen performance issues on the sendero light in magnums? I was hesitant but chambered one for my 7 mag and it’s a hammer. Haven’t ran anything bigger.

Yes, and no. How's that for a solid answer? Haha. Gonna run long here, so bare with me. Carbon barrels can flat out shoot. I can't and won't argue that fact. We do a ton of them under normal circumstances, and 2 tons of them if you throw in last year's TBH build. What we have learned from that is this:

1. As good as they are, the failure rate is a way higher percentage when compared to traditional steel barrels from a performance standpoint.
2. They are nowhere close to being as rigid as a steel barrel of even smaller diameter. This is easily demonstrated with a deflection test using an indicator despite what the marketing claims. Harmonics are harsher as a result.
3. Proof clearly stands out as being at the top of the heap in CF barrels. It's as close to a safe bet as you will find in a CF barrel.
4. As case capacity increases and barrel diameter decreases, warranty claims of poor performance increase correspondingly. There's that harmonics thing again A good example here would be a 28Nosler on a light sendero.

The 28N/LS is a great example as it's one we have seen many times. One of 3 things is going to happen when the customer receives the rifle..........It's going to shoot great with a box of shelf ammo and the customer is going to be happy............or it's going to shoot terrible and the customer is going to get very frustrated........or the customer is going to take it home, work up a load tuned to that rifle and be VERY happy. Scenario 1&3 are pretty common, but scenario 2 is still happening a big chunk of the time. Bump that barrel contour up to the full sendero version and scenario 2 drops by more than half. It's just more stable from a harmonics standpoint.

Don't get me wrong, the accuracy POTENTIAL is still all there on the 28N/LS combo. It will most likely shoot very, very well. It just may not do it with stuff coming out of a cardboard box. It may demand the load be tuned to fit it, and the accuracy nodes are probably going to be very narrow as well. And that, right there, is where the issues start for this kind of deal.

As a builder, I want the customer to be happy and get the performance they expect from the build. Most of the time that's exactly what happens. But certain combos have proven to be problematic for guys who don't have the knowledge, time or desire to work them out on their end to get the rifle performing to it's potential. We are kind of forced to use factory ammo as a benchmark in that regard. That crossover point seems to be right around the long action magnum/light sendero/factory ammo line. It works very well a lot of the time, but it also doesn't a lot of the time. I have tons of data that seems to back that up. It's not that there is anything "wrong" with the combo most times, it just might not work with factory ammo. Some cartridges out there give us many choices for a work around, but many don't......and then you're stuck.

So we try to stay ahead of the curve and avoid known risks within reason to provide a level of performance that keeps everyone happy. That said, if you come to me for a build consult as an avid handloader, we'll probably find ourselves taking a different path as the "risks" are going to be much lower in regards to component selection(I'll build it as light as you can drive it). However, on a project of this size where a large part, if not the majority will be using factory ammo, I'm much more comfortable sticking to what we know works.


Kind of on that same note - I mentioned last year about this time we were working on our own CF barrels. I've spent a good part of the past year learning the ins and outs of their characteristics and quirks from the manufacturing side. We are still testing now.......far longer than what we thought we would be. We decided to test through the entire life cycle instead of just going with our earlier results before officially rolling them out.We also wanted a much larger sample size. Results are excellent so far.

Sorry, kind of went off in my own direction there. To answer your question, yes we have seen performance issues with that contour on the bigger stuff.......but not all the time.

[trophy8]

Yes, and no. How's that for a solid answer? Haha. Gonna run long here, so bare with me. Carbon barrels can flat out shoot. I can't and won't argue that fact. We do a ton of them under normal circumstances, and 2 tons of them if you throw in last year's TBH build. What we have learned from that is this:

1. As good as they are, the failure rate is a way higher percentage when compared to traditional steel barrels from a performance standpoint.
2. They are nowhere close to being as rigid as a steel barrel of even smaller diameter. This is easily demonstrated with a deflection test using an indicator despite what the marketing claims. Harmonics are harsher as a result.
3. Proof clearly stands out as being at the top of the heap in CF barrels. It's as close to a safe bet as you will find in a CF barrel.
4. As case capacity increases and barrel diameter decreases, warranty claims of poor performance increase correspondingly. There's that harmonics thing again A good example here would be a 28Nosler on a light sendero.

The 28N/LS is a great example as it's one we have seen many times. One of 3 things is going to happen when the customer receives the rifle..........It's going to shoot great with a box of shelf ammo and the customer is going to be happy............or it's going to shoot terrible and the customer is going to get very frustrated........or the customer is going to take it home, work up a load tuned to that rifle and be VERY happy. Scenario 1&3 are pretty common, but scenario 2 is still happening a big chunk of the time. Bump that barrel contour up to the full sendero version and scenario 2 drops by more than half. It's just more stable from a harmonics standpoint.

Don't get me wrong, the accuracy POTENTIAL is still all there on the 28N/LS combo. It will most likely shoot very, very well. It just may not do it with stuff coming out of a cardboard box. It may demand the load be tuned to fit it, and the accuracy nodes are probably going to be very narrow as well. And that, right there, is where the issues start for this kind of deal.

As a builder, I want the customer to be happy and get the performance they expect from the build. Most of the time that's exactly what happens. But certain combos have proven to be problematic for guys who don't have the knowledge, time or desire to work them out on their end to get the rifle performing to it's potential. We are kind of forced to use factory ammo as a benchmark in that regard. That crossover point seems to be right around the long action magnum/light sendero/factory ammo line. It works very well a lot of the time, but it also doesn't a lot of the time. I have tons of data that seems to back that up. It's not that there is anything "wrong" with the combo most times, it just might not work with factory ammo. Some cartridges out there give us many choices for a work around, but many don't......and then you're stuck.

So we try to stay ahead of the curve and avoid known risks within reason to provide a level of performance that keeps everyone happy. That said, if you come to me for a build consult as an avid handloader, we'll probably find ourselves taking a different path as the "risks" are going to be much lower in regards to component selection(I'll build it as light as you can drive it). However, on a project of this size where a large part, if not the majority will be using factory ammo, I'm much more comfortable sticking to what we know works.


Kind of on that same note - I mentioned last year about this time we were working on our own CF barrels. I've spent a good part of the past year learning the ins and outs of their characteristics and quirks from the manufacturing side. We are still testing now.......far longer than what we thought we would be. We decided to test through the entire life cycle instead of just going with our earlier results before officially rolling them out.We also wanted a much larger sample size. Results are excellent so far.

I understand. That was my biggest concern on my rifle. But I rolled the dice. I will say I had a buddy shooting with me and he could notice the barrel whip which I thought was strange. But it’s an absolute hammer. I don’t think it’s ever had a factory loaded round fired in it though.

I appreciate the info and will be looking forward to you guys rolling out those carbon barrels.

[caa4612]

#3


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[HOOKNBULLET2]

3 woody

[JWalker08]

# 1

[Elnicko]

#1

[MitchParker]

#1

[StevenW]

#3

[Cratus]

1