Berger Results

[BTGuard]

Well, finally did some load testing today with my 168 gr VLD hunter loaded over Varget. I loaded all rounds with 43.5 gr. of Varget, and varied the CBTO length. To the lands gave me a length of 2.268. I loaded 6 each rounds at 2.139, 2.179, 2.219, and 2.259.
I kept them off the the lands that little bit because i want to use this for hunting, and dont want to risk jamming a bullet too hard and not be able to unload it. This is the method that Berger recommends to test these bullets.

The results weren't quite what i expected. I'll attach target pictures below, but long story short the 3.179 shot noticeably better then the rest. Berger said this would happen but i did expect the longer rounds to be the more accurate, where in reality the longest round was actually the least accurate. Pictures are attached below.

[BTGuard]

Target 1


Target 2


Target 3


Target 4


Info is in the lower left, with group sizes written on the target.

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[J-Carp]

I'm not a expert reloader but it looks to me like you need to do more load development before you start jack in with COL. unless of course you had a great load developed and adjusting your COL produced these resukts

[hoythitman]

Specs on the bang stick will help as well. Twist rate, barrel length, action, scope, was it bedded, trigger, etc..?

[hoythitman]

I played with the berger VLD's in my 700 aac-sd. Best groups I got was a tad over 1", just wouldn't group any better, shot them over different powders with lots of lengths and charges. For reference The rifle shoots my 178 hornadys at .3" average.

[bboswell]

I'm leaning more and more toward OAL testing prior to load development.

I had given up on Nos ABLR's in my 280AI until did the Berger OAL work up, like you it revealed an obvious node at which I was able to tweak powder and ended up with excellent results.

[BTGuard]

I'm not a expert reloader but it looks to me like you need to do more load development before you start jack in with COL. unless of course you had a great load developed and adjusting your COL produced these resukts

Vld are notoriously sensitive to seating depth. Per Berger and a couple members here they recommended finding a length that worked better then the others at a mid powder charge (43.5 gr) then messing with powder charges

Specs on the bang stick will help as well. Twist rate, barrel length, action, scope, was it bedded, trigger, etc..?

It's a standard Marlin XS7. 22" barrel with 1:12" twist. Prostaff 5 4-16 x 50 scope, trigger is set at 2.5 pounds. Not bedded, but free floated in a boyds stock.

I'll be the first to tell you I'm not a fantastic shot... But from my understanding these results are about what I should expect from this test. The powder charge development should shrink these groups down even more.

All groups were shot off my bipod on a shooting table at the range.

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[BTGuard]

I'm leaning more and more toward OAL testing prior to load development.

I had given up on Nos ABLR's in my 280AI until did the Berger OAL work up, like you it revealed an obvious node at which I was able to tweak powder and ended up with excellent results.

Yep I'd never thought of doing it that way until reading the articles on the Berger website and asking the opinions of the gentleman here.

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[scott.str]

ive always done the oal suggested then finding the best powder charge. usually works well. Barnes 150 got me .308" tip to tip. now to mess with the OAL length to see if i can get any better. Rem 700 AAC-SD

[hoythitman]

Vld are notoriously sensitive to seating depth. Per Berger and a couple members here they recommended finding a length that worked better then the others at a mid powder charge (43.5 gr) then messing with powder charges

It's a standard Marlin XS7. 22" barrel with 1:12" twist. Prostaff 5 4-16 x 50 scope, trigger is set at 2.5 pounds. Not bedded, but free floated in a boyds stock.

I'll be the first to tell you I'm not a fantastic shot... But from my understanding these results are about what I should expect from this test. The powder charge development should shrink these groups down even more.

All groups were shot off my bipod on a shooting table at the range.

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1-12 twist should be ok with the 168's but might want to try a 150's and see if your rifle likes them better. Some like the lighter stuff better some like the heavier stuff. My old rem 700 with a 24" 1-12 just didn't like 165's or 168's. 150's shot lights out.

[Greyman]

Vld are notoriously sensitive to seating depth. Per Berger and a couple members here they recommended finding a length that worked better then the others at a mid powder charge (43.5 gr) then messing with powder charges

It's a standard Marlin XS7. 22" barrel with 1:12" twist. Prostaff 5 4-16 x 50 scope, trigger is set at 2.5 pounds. Not bedded, but free floated in a boyds stock.

I'll be the first to tell you I'm not a fantastic shot... But from my understanding these results are about what I should expect from this test. The powder charge development should shrink these groups down even more.

All groups were shot off my bipod on a shooting table at the range.

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Well you gave us everything but the caliber.... I am going to assume .308? looks like you should do some more load testing either that or your gun just doesn't like the VLDs.

[J-Carp]

Well, sounds like you've done your home work. Best of luck with the load


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[BTGuard]

1-12 twist should be ok with the 168's but might want to try a 150's and see if your rifle likes them better. Some like the lighter stuff better some like the heavier stuff. My old rem 700 with a 24" 1-12 just didn't like 165's or 168's. 150's shot lights out.

Hopefully it doesn't get to that point! I'm really hoping these heavier bullets work for that little bit of extra range.

Well you gave us everything but the caliber.... I am going to assume .308? looks like you should do some more load testing either that or your gun just doesn't like the VLDs.

Woops, yes. 308. I've got a whole series of OCW to test before this series of development is done. I figure playing with powder will hopefully knock a bit more off, and get me comfortably down in the sub moa range. This is no bench gun so I don't need much more then that from a 400 dollar gun. That's what the next gun is for

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[dustoffer]

[QUOTE=bboswell;11320927]I'm leaning more and more toward OAL testing prior to load development.

I spent a number of years working with my LGS doing accuracy work-ups after rebarrel, new scopes, and bedding jobs, etc. I was surfing the web and found a recommended procedure on a website (can't remember which one) that said pick a bullet and compatible propellant, with a load that is 5% below max. Then do the load workup varying only the bullet jump/OAL/distance from ogive to lands. Once you've found the sweet spot in terms of OAL, if the accuracy/consistency isn't acceptable, then change the propellant charge. I adopted this practice and used it for 5-6 years with total success minus one rifle that just wouldn't shoot.

This all assumes you have done a full accuracy prep of your brass before starting.

[BTGuard]

[quote=dustoffer;11321267]

I'm leaning more and more toward OAL testing prior to load development.

I spent a number of years working with my LGS doing accuracy work-ups after rebarrel, new scopes, and bedding jobs, etc. I was surfing the web and found a recommended procedure on a website (can't remember which one) that said pick a bullet and compatible propellant, with a load that is 5% below max. Then do the load workup varying only the bullet jump/OAL/distance from ogive to lands. Once you've found the sweet spot in terms of OAL, if the accuracy/consistency isn't acceptable, then change the propellant charge. I adopted this practice and used it for 5-6 years with total success minus one rifle that just wouldn't shoot.

This all assumes you have done a full accuracy prep of your brass before starting.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/effects-of-cartridge-over-all-length-coal-and-cartridge-base-to-ogive-cbto-part-1/

Here is part 1 of 2 recommending a similar tactic.

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