What does 1 MOA really mean?

[Walker]

Now after all this info, and its good info, for the hunting crowd.what matters is first shot repeatability. Does your first shot from a cold, fouled barrel tomorrow hit the same place as your first shot from a cold, fouled barrel did today.

[howabouttheiris]

Good point I guess, I just don't understand Moa. So your aiming at the bull and always 1 inch off so your gun is a 1 Moa gun ? I've seen lots of pics of people's groups that are great, there just always an inch off the bull. So your not aming at the bull? You are ?

Minute of Angle is an angle measure (think degrees, minutes, seconds). It defines an arc at any desired distance. Calculated out, it is equivalent to a linear distance that is slightly greater than 1" at 100 yards. (so, by extension, it is ~2" at 200 yards, ~3" at 300 yards, .... ) It allows you to easily measure and compare group sizes shot at any distance. It is not an indication of drop, as the drop is parabolic and will never be linear like MOA. (so, as mentioned above, it is not a laser beam gun that drops 1" per 100)

It does not say that you will be 1" off the bullseye either. When shooting for groups you use a very small bullseye (as the size of it becomes a possibility to introduce error) and intentionally dial the scope away by an inch or more. (The group size is all that is important in this measurement. Rest assured that if you undial this dope the POI would cluster around the POA.) Again this is just so that you do not destroy your aim point and introduce error.

An MOA gun is one that can consistently produce a group measuring no more than 1MOA. (so a 1" group at 100 or a 2" group at 200, .... ) Getting much beyond these distances, you will have to really account for windage and it becomes more about the shooter than the gun, but in theory, if you did your job perfectly, the variations in the gun would only produce a deviation of ~10" at 1000 yards.

Here are some groups that I shot and the measurements (done by OnTarget software) You can see that the measurements are from center to center (to not penalize you for shooting a larger or smaller caliber).



Did I help or hurt?

[Terry]

Almost all new rifles will outshoot the shooter. Unless you are realty an expert at long range shooting I would not worry about 1MOA

[Jäger]

FIRST THIS IS ALL A GUESS BUT, i would venture a guess to the op's original statement that an "MOA Guarantee" from a manufacture is mostly marketing and would imagine that there is no standardized industry test to ensure this. the problem being there is no standard legal definition of "MOA Guarantee". is it a 3 shot group or a 5 shot group? how many groups must consistently be shot before it qualifies. Are the guns locked into some sort of equipment to ensure they don't move? is the barrel required to be shot from the exact action and stock that it will be shipped with? there are lots of question i would have if i was limiting myself to just manufactures that made such a promise, not that they make bad guns. on the contrary i believe that mostly they are fantastic rifles. but i would talk to people about their guns and see how they shoot. talk to your dealer he will probably have some insight into what guns are tack drivers even though they may not guarantee it. Savage comes to mind. all for what its worth..my opinions not much

[R.W.T]

Minute of Angle is an angle measure (think degrees, minutes, seconds). It defines an arc at any desired distance. Calculated out, it is equivalent to a linear distance that is slightly greater than 1" at 100 yards. (so, by extension, it is ~2" at 200 yards, ~3" at 300 yards, .... ) It allows you to easily measure and compare group sizes shot at any distance. It is not an indication of drop, as the drop is parabolic and will never be linear like MOA. (so, as mentioned above, it is not a laser beam gun that drops 1" per 100)

It does not say that you will be 1" off the bullseye either. When shooting for groups you use a very small bullseye (as the size of it becomes a possibility to introduce error) and intentionally dial the scope away by an inch or more. (The group size is all that is important in this measurement. Rest assured that if you undial this dope the POI would cluster around the POA.) Again this is just so that you do not destroy your aim point and introduce error.

An MOA gun is one that can consistently produce a group measuring no more than 1MOA. (so a 1" group at 100 or a 2" group at 200, .... ) Getting much beyond these distances, you will have to really account for windage and it becomes more about the shooter than the gun, but in theory, if you did your job perfectly, the variations in the gun would only produce a deviation of ~10" at 1000 yards.

Here are some groups that I shot and the measurements (done by OnTarget software) You can see that the measurements are from center to center (to not penalize you for shooting a larger or smaller caliber).



Did I help or hurt?

help, I understand it better now thanks.

[thearrower]

FIRST THIS IS ALL A GUESS BUT, i would venture a guess to the op's original statement that an "MOA Guarantee" from a manufacture is mostly marketing and would imagine that there is no standardized industry test to ensure this. the problem being there is no standard legal definition of "MOA Guarantee". is it a 3 shot group or a 5 shot group? how many groups must consistently be shot before it qualifies. Are the guns locked into some sort of equipment to ensure they don't move? is the barrel required to be shot from the exact action and stock that it will be shipped with? there are lots of question i would have if i was limiting myself to just manufactures that made such a promise, not that they make bad guns. on the contrary i believe that mostly they are fantastic rifles. but i would talk to people about their guns and see how they shoot. talk to your dealer he will probably have some insight into what guns are tack drivers even though they may not guarantee it. Savage comes to mind. all for what its worth..my opinions not much

I think you are probably correct......the best thing to do is to actually speak with any arms maker that has a firearm that interests me.......Lots of good info here.....Thanks to all who have shared here

[meltingfeather]

Using the 1 MOA=1 inch/100 yards estimate will screw up your adjustment badly at long range.

Like... a whole 1/2 inch at 1,000 yards.

[Killer]

Ah, then let me be the one to enlighten you

Let's say you're pushing a 178 grain .308 bullet at 2600 FPS with a BC of .530.

At 1000 yards your drop will be ~285 inches. Now by your 1 MOA = 10" at 1000 yards estimate, you'd just adjust your vertical by 28.5 MOA or 114 clicks (if your turrets are adjust in 1/4 MOA). Problem is, you actually just changed your POI by 298.4" and you're now 13.4" off target. That's missing or wounding an animal instead of killing.

So while it may seem small, when you stack it up, it becomes significant.

At closer ranges (<400 yards) it's not as a big a deal, but long range it is.

This is why MIL/MIL scopes are the bomb. A mil will always be 1/1000 of your distance. No rounding involved (unless you consider small angle approximation to be rounding, for which the error doesn't exceed 1% until you are greater than 10 degrees, which no scope is even close to capable of).

wow

[sir shovelhands]

Like... a whole 1/2 inch at 1,000 yards.

Please read post #43.

[sir shovelhands]

wow

??

[Zen Archery]

Sales companies and civilians using military terms. 1" is 1" correct. But saying MOA makes the equipment sound more technical and sophisticated. It is a measuring system that many companies use as a sales pitch but at the end of the day for hunting purposes 1" is 1".

If you consider most game size animals (not varmints) have a 5" to 10" killing radius, unless you are a head shot only person. Then just keep it simple.

[meltingfeather]

Please read post #43.

Doh!!

[sir shovelhands]

Sales companies and civilians using military terms. 1" is 1" correct. But saying MOA makes the equipment sound more technical and sophisticated. It is a measuring system that many companies use as a sales pitch but at the end of the day for hunting purposes 1" is 1".

Minute-of-angle and Milliradian are not military terms, they're mathematical units of angle. Angular units also happen to be the only way to accurately describe scope adjustments...

[howabouttheiris]

... but at the end of the day for hunting purposes 1" is 1".

True.... but only if you have your feeder and blind 95.51 yards apart.

[hardtner]

Not much. At 1000 yards 1 moa based on 1.047 is 10.47" instead of an even 10" based on 1". I can't see that bothering a long range adjustment but I've never shot at 1000 yards so I'm clueless

Clearly


This is bad info above.