FFL gun sale question

[mikeb1206]

My hunting partner passed away this week. I talked to his dad today and he is asking me to sell my hunting partners gun collection since he does not know much about guns.

I am not an expert and I don't want the ATF knocking on my door. I am not sure how many guns we are talking about yet.

So I guess I am needing a FFL or gun store to help me out with the transaction.

Any sound advice would be appreciated.

[Joe H]

You can sell them to individuals. You can look at places like gunbroker to get pricing ideas. Post them up on TBH and you will probably get some interest.

[tvc184]

If the question is can he sell guns to individuals like face to face sales without an FFL, it is my opinion that it is. That is according to the ATF frequently asked questions page.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

In this case it is an estate sale that may involve the selling of a large number of guns, possible in bulk. Looking at another ATF page, it appears legal to do so without an FFL assuming it is not done by an auctioneer that routinely sell estate firearms. In such a case I believe that auctioneer might need an FFL. The estate sale part seems to be meaningless and is just like any other gun sale as long as it isn't done by such an auctioneer or a person that makes money selling guns.

This is some excerpts from a page answering a question of estate firearm sales.

In the case of estate-type auctions, the auctioneer acts as an agent of the executor and assists the executor in finding buyers for the estate’s firearms. The firearms are possessed by the estate, and the sales of firearms are made by the estate. In these cases, the auctioneer does not meet the definition of “engaging in the business” as a dealer in firearms and would not require a license. An auctioneer engaged in estate-type auctions, whether licensed or not, may perform this function, including delivery of the firearms, away from the business premises.

and.....

Held: Persons who conduct estate-type auctions at which the auctioneer assists the estate in selling the estate’s firearms, and the firearms are possessed and transferred by the estate, do not require a Federal firearms license.

From the highlighted text above it appears that ATF does not even think an auctioneer that sells firearms needs a license as long as the person isn't in that business. If an auctioneer that sells in a public forum doesn't need an FFL for a sale, I think that it is clear that personal sales of firearms is as stated above, no FFL needed.

Of course if they guns are sold at auction by someone that "routinely" sells firearms, an FFL is likely needed by that person/company.

Held further: Persons who regularly conduct consignment-type auctions, for example, held every 1-2 months, where the auctioneer takes possession of the firearms pursuant to a consignment contract giving the auctioneer the exclusive right and authority to sell the firearms at a location, time and date to be selected by the auctioneer and providing for a commission to be paid upon sale are required to obtain a license as a dealer in firearms pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 923(a).

This is the ATF information page for the above information.

https://www.atf.gov/file/55456/download

I know that it wasn't asked if it was at an auction or an all at once type of sale but I was curious if a large estate sale of many guns would require something more than just an individual selling a firearm or two face to face with does not require an FFL. From the above it appears that even a third party (auctioneer) can sell firearms without the need for an FFL as long as it isn't doing so often enough for the ATF to consider it a business. In such a case I think that backs up an individual being able to sell even several firearms without the need for an FFL.

I think that if you helped to arrange the sales and did not take money for it and simply helped to find buyers, it would fit the above information with no FFL required.

I am sure that an FFL might appreciate the business however if a person wished to go that route.

In my opinion.

[eaglegolfj]

Yes we are interested in what you have for sale sir.
I have bought a few on here ftf and they ask if I have CHL to make sure they are not selling to a felon and all is good.
Find out what he has and post them up, Im sure you wont have any problem selling them on here. As said above the gunbroker.com web site is a good way to judge the value of just about any firearm, that's what I check when I purchase one myself to see if Im getting a fair deal.

[JustinJ]

Would be interested in the whole lot if you decide to sell

[mikeb1206]

Thanks for the responses and interest.

I probably will be listing on TBH along with his feeders, cameras and other items.

We may go the whole package route with the guns, just have to see what he had.

Now I need to find me a new pig hunting partner in Grayson County.

[gumbl3]

Sorry to hear about your friend

[mikeb1206]

If the question is can he sell guns to individuals like face to face sales without an FFL, it is my opinion that it is. That is according to the ATF frequently asked questions page.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

In this case it is an estate sale that may involve the selling of a large number of guns, possible in bulk. Looking at another ATF page, it appears legal to do so without an FFL assuming it is not done by an auctioneer that routinely sell estate firearms. In such a case I believe that auctioneer might need an FFL. The estate sale part seems to be meaningless and is just like any other gun sale as long as it isn't done by such an auctioneer or a person that makes money selling guns.

This is some excerpts from a page answering a question of estate firearm sales.

In the case of estate-type auctions, the auctioneer acts as an agent of the executor and assists the executor in finding buyers for the estate’s firearms. The firearms are possessed by the estate, and the sales of firearms are made by the estate. In these cases, the auctioneer does not meet the definition of “engaging in the business” as a dealer in firearms and would not require a license. An auctioneer engaged in estate-type auctions, whether licensed or not, may perform this function, including delivery of the firearms, away from the business premises.

and.....

Held: Persons who conduct estate-type auctions at which the auctioneer assists the estate in selling the estate’s firearms, and the firearms are possessed and transferred by the estate, do not require a Federal firearms license.

From the highlighted text above it appears that ATF does not even think an auctioneer that sells firearms needs a license as long as the person isn't in that business. If an auctioneer that sells in a public forum doesn't need an FFL for a sale, I think that it is clear that personal sales of firearms is as stated above, no FFL needed.

Of course if they guns are sold at auction by someone that "routinely" sells firearms, an FFL is likely needed by that person/company.

Held further: Persons who regularly conduct consignment-type auctions, for example, held every 1-2 months, where the auctioneer takes possession of the firearms pursuant to a consignment contract giving the auctioneer the exclusive right and authority to sell the firearms at a location, time and date to be selected by the auctioneer and providing for a commission to be paid upon sale are required to obtain a license as a dealer in firearms pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 923(a).

This is the ATF information page for the above information.

https://www.atf.gov/file/55456/download

I know that it wasn't asked if it was at an auction or an all at once type of sale but I was curious if a large estate sale of many guns would require something more than just an individual selling a firearm or two face to face with does not require an FFL. From the above it appears that even a third party (auctioneer) can sell firearms without the need for an FFL as long as it isn't doing so often enough for the ATF to consider it a business. In such a case I think that backs up an individual being able to sell even several firearms without the need for an FFL.

I think that if you helped to arrange the sales and did not take money for it and simply helped to find buyers, it would fit the above information with no FFL required.

I am sure that an FFL might appreciate the business however if a person wished to go that route.

In my opinion.

Thank you for your reasearch and time involved in the answer.