Ackley Improved or not?

[droptine8850]

I'm thinking about having a 6.5-06 built and would like to hear everyone's thoughts about whether it's worth it or not.( To AI or not)

I do not currently handload, but plan to in the future. Dallas Reloads will handle it for now. How well does non-ai ammo shoot thru an improved chamber?

Any feeding problems? Will more than likely be on a Rem 700 action, but if needed, I could use a Tikka.....they feed everything well.

The AI is supposed to minimize the need to trim brass, but is that enough reason to justify improving it?

What kind of velocity with 130's and 140's?
Looking for 3000 with 140's and 3150-3200 with 130's? Is that 264 win mag with 26" barrel territory?

Not really interested in 280ai, looking to keep bullet weight at 130-140gr max with high BC.

I hope APR chimes in, but anyone else with experience is welcome to give their thoughts.

[silencer2011]

Are you dead set on the .06? If I were building a rifle in any 6.5 caliber I would likely build a Creedmoor or a 6.5-284 Norma. I have also contemplated a 6.5 wsm or 6.5 saum.

[bustacap]

6.5x47, Creedmoor, 260, 6.5x284, 26 nosler?
I don't see any need to improve the 6.5-06 with all the other options.

[Cajun Blake]

FYI - the 280 parent case is the 30-06

a 6.5x06 AI would basically be identical to the 280 AI in ballistics with same gr bullets .

280 AI (and 280) ammo is already on the shelf and you can shoot 120-180 gr bullets if you end up reloading

with the 6.5, you're pretty much limited to 120 to 140 gr bullets , and high dollar custom reloads along with pricey dies if you DIY

I can't think of any reason to choose the 6.5x06 AI over the 280AI

build what YOU want brother, just keep researching the facts to make a educated decision

best of luck with your build and keep us posted

[hweissert]

I agree with Blake. If you don't intend to custom hand load, or plan to in the near future the Ack would be the better option. Dallas will do you a bang up job I'm sure but, if you get in a bind, you can buy the 280 Ackley commercially now. Or, shoot the 280 Remington through it if you got off somewhere and left or lost your ammo. I own rifles in both calibers (well my 6.5 is built on 284) and both shoot phenomenally. If I had to keep one and only one of the 2 the 6.5x284 wins hands down. I shoot Berger 130 and 140's in it and would not have a problem taking it on an elk hunt or whatever. I won't get rid of the 280 ack though. I do as Blake mentioned like the ability to shoot heavier and wider range of bullets in it. Good choice on either you decide.

[Stick1]

I wouldn't try to talk you out of the 6.5-06AI, as I really believe it is at the top of the heap as far as performance is concerned among the 06 family. But I will also be the first to say that it can be a lot of work to get there, and as Blake pointed out the 280AI gets you to virtually the same place with less hassle..........mostly. I say "mostly" because you can indeed buy 280AI off the shelf, but in reality you only have a FEW choices at best. If your gun doesn't like one of those few choices, well, there went the easy part.

I'm not saying that the Ackleys are only for guys who are really into handloading, but I will say that there might be better places to start for someone who is just getting into handloading. An Ackley based wildcat like the 6.5-06 is going to throw a couple extra variables into your process that might cause some unnecessary frustration as you are developing your routine and loading techniques. And one thing seldom mentioned is the fact that Ackleys have a well deserved reputation for masking traditional pressure signs. Again, maybe not the best choice for one of your first reloading projects.

As for feeding issues with the Ackleys, it is a possibility though rare and usually easily corrected. Need for trimming will be reduced substantially. The velocity gain is nice, but I HATE trimming brass, so that is one of the greatest benefits for me personally. Most of the time fire form loads will shoot "decent", but you will see a definite improvement once you are working with formed brass. Some folks believe the steeper shoulder angle of the Ackley is easier on the throat than the long sloping shoulder of the parent case because of the way it directs gas. I'm undecided on this, but I can see an argument for both sides.

Again, not trying to dissuade you from the 6.5-06AI, but just make sure you know what your getting into. It is a great round, and you are correct about it crowding into 264WM territory. I don't mind fire forming and I load practically every round I shoot anyway, as precision is my ultimate goal. So I don't see any of the AI's as an inconvenience. Most of them truly are "improvements" to me. That said, If I had to depend on another source to feed them I wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft pole.

[Cajun Blake]

I agree with Blake. If you don't intend to custom hand load, or plan to in the near future the Ack would be the better option. Dallas will do you a bang up job I'm sure but, if you get in a bind, you can buy the 280 Ackley commercially now. Or, shoot the 280 Remington through it if you got off somewhere and left or lost your ammo. I own rifles in both calibers (well my 6.5 is built on 284) and both shoot phenomenally. If I had to keep one and only one of the 2 the 6.5x284 wins hands down. I shoot Berger 130 and 140's in it and would not have a problem taking it on an elk hunt or whatever. I won't get rid of the 280 ack though. I do as Blake mentioned like the ability to shoot heavier and wider range of bullets in it. Good choice on either you decide.

I wouldn't try to talk you out of the 6.5-06AI, as I really believe it is at the top of the heap as far as performance is concerned among the 06 family. But I will also be the first to say that it can be a lot of work to get there, and as Blake pointed out the 280AI gets you to virtually the same place with less hassle..........mostly. I say "mostly" because you can indeed buy 280AI off the shelf, but in reality you only have a FEW choices at best. If your gun doesn't like one of those few choices, well, there went the easy part.

I'm not saying that the Ackleys are only for guys who are really into handloading, but I will say that there might be better places to start for someone who is just getting into handloading. An Ackley based wildcat like the 6.5-06 is going to throw a couple extra variables into your process that might cause some unnecessary frustration as you are developing your routine and loading techniques. And one thing seldom mentioned is the fact that Ackleys have a well deserved reputation for masking traditional pressure signs. Again, maybe not the best choice for one of your first reloading projects.

As for feeding issues with the Ackleys, it is a possibility though rare and usually easily corrected. Need for trimming will be reduced substantially. The velocity gain is nice, but I HATE trimming brass, so that is one of the greatest benefits for me personally. Most of the time fire form loads will shoot "decent", but you will see a definite improvement once you are working with formed brass. Some folks believe the steeper shoulder angle of the Ackley is easier on the throat than the long sloping shoulder of the parent case because of the way it directs gas. I'm undecided on this, but I can see an argument for both sides.

Again, not trying to dissuade you from the 6.5-06AI, but just make sure you know what your getting into. It is a great round, and you are correct about it crowding into 264WM territory. I don't mind fire forming and I load practically every round I shoot anyway, as precision is my ultimate goal. So I don't see any of the AI's as an inconvenience. Most of them truly are "improvements" to me. That said, If I had to depend on another source to feed them I wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft pole.

concur with all the above

one other thing to add .... if you have never reloaded your own ammo before , I would rate the 280AI as a "2" on a difficulty scale of 1 to 10. I'd rate the 6.5x06 AI as a "8 or 9" in difficulty since you have to neck down parent brass in several stages and necks may have to be turned because of thickness.

I've designed my own custom cartridges and reload for multiple wildcats ..... to be honest with you, making brass sucks !!!

[smokeless]

Love my 280AI

[softpoint]

I wouldn't AI the 6.5. The '06 case has plenty of capacity for that bore size. I wouldn't "improve" anything less than the .280 bore, and I personally wouldn't even do that one. For bore sizes under .30, the gains are minimal, as they are already over bore capacity, meaning that the gains in velocity are minimal, compared to powder consumption and short barrel life. Of course, if a life time of shooting will only amount to less than a thousand rounds, it probably doesn't matter.
The Remington 700 action would be an excellent choice for that cartridge, and the standard 6.5/06 is also an excellent choice. The bullets available in that bore size have excellent sectional density.

[droptine8850]

Great info fellas, much appreciated.

Not really interested in the 6.5 saum.

6.5-06 vs 6.5x284(LA) vs 264 win.....

Want to shoot 130 gr Swift Scirocco, 130 berger/ABLR, 140 Amax/Berger.

This rifle would be for hunting Ag fields, long senderos, Powerline ROW. I guess 26" barrel wouldn't be out of the question. For deer/pigs/exotics....got a 300 win for bigger critters.

[Cajun Blake]

Great info fellas, much appreciated.

Not really interested in the 6.5 saum.

6.5-06 vs 6.5x284(LA) vs 264 win.....

Want to shoot 130 gr Swift Scirocco, 130 berger/ABLR, 140 Amax/Berger.

This rifle would be for hunting Ag fields, long senderos, Powerline ROW. I guess 26" barrel wouldn't be out of the question. For deer/pigs/exotics....got a 300 win for bigger critters.

6.5x284 LA .... 26" tube at a minimum

[JakeGraves]

6.5x284 and a 28" barrel would be my choice. A Lapua brass offering is a plus too.

[dustoffer]

Never felt a need for an AI in any caliber. I've found that the standard calibers do me just fine.

[droptine8850]

Thanks for all the info. After further research, I've decided to eliminate the 264 win mag from my choices and replace it with another 260 rem.

So now I'm looking at:

Another 260 rem( maybe a 24" barrel on this one, current rifle has a 22")
6.5-06 (would be willing to go 26" barrel)
6.5x284( same as above)

I just need to figure out which one will get me to the velocity I'm looking for, without alot of trial and error.

I've read that the 6.5-06 can be tough to find and maintain accurate loads with speed, that don't show pressure spikes with weather changes......almost as bad as the 264 win.

Looks like factory ammo velocity for 140 gr runs around 2850 fps or so in the 6.5x284. That doesn't seem to be much of an increase from a 260 with 24" barrel. Know several guys getting 2800+/- with 140's and 2950 +/- with 130's.

Still looking for more info, before I make my final decision.

Keep it coming!!

[droptine8850]

I guess I should put the 280ai back on the table..... don't need another 260......6.5-06 doesn't have any factory ammo available.

280ai- 120 gr BT- 168 gr Berger....no interest in heavier bullets.
6.5x284- 120 gr BT-140 gr Berger

Recoil will be heavier with high BC bullets in the 280ai

What cartridge would the 162-168 gr 280ai compare to in recoil?
I'm not that sensitive to recoil, but this rifle is going to weigh less than 8 lbs scoped and loaded to hunt.

6.5x284 guys- What kind of velocity can be reached accurately with 26" barrels on:
130 gr
140 gr

280ai guys- Same as above except 24" barrel or does the 280ai need 26" also?
150 gr
162-168 gr-

Thanks fellas!