Rifle advice

[trophy8]

Unless you're going to be pushing that bullet over 3650 fps like my 257 Weatherby shoots the 115 grain Berger VLDs, that's not gonna happen.

[txjustin]

I am new to rifle hunting. Only have taken 2 deer in my life with a rifle. I am looking to buy a rifle. What do recommend? 243 or 270? I grew up with 30-06 but think it maybe overkill on these little Hill country deer

Don't discount the 30.06 just yet. I shoot one with a managed recoil round that is something like 125 grain. Knocked down every deer it's hit.

[gatorgrizz27]

Unless you're going to be pushing that bullet over 3650 fps like my 257 Weatherby shoots the 115 grain Berger VLDs, that's not gonna happen.

This is what a 115 grain VLD from my gun does to 3/8" thick AR500 plate at 200 yards.

Barnes has load data claiming 3,615 fps out of the muzzle, and uses less powder. They can also lob a 200/220 grain bullet with a 0.546 BC, quite the versatile little bugger .

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/30-06SpringfieldWeb1.pdf

Their TTSX bullets also have a higher BC than the TSX listed. However, there is no getting around the fact that a .25 bullet will have a better BC than a .30 bullet of equal weight, which starts to matter big time at longer range.

[gatorgrizz27]

Thanks for bringing some logic back.

I started shooting deer with a 243 and have watched this round have more bullet failures to exit than any other over my shooting carrier...yes, it kills deer dead, but if you cannot track the deer with good shot placement due to no exit wound, then it's obvious other cals like the 270 give you better room for error. This really is not debatable...

I do almost all my doe harvesting with a 220 swift with neck shots, but the OP is asking about a good first all around rifle & the 270 is shoulders above the 243 in all aspects hands down when it comes to putting them in the boiler room. Especially at distance...

Agreed, however there are many .243 varmint bullets out there that people may not realize aren't intended for medium sized game. My point was also that even if you get an exit, there may not always be a good blood trail.

[txstate14]

.270 will do everything you need

[Mike D]

Barnes has load data claiming 3,615 fps out of the muzzle, and uses less powder. They can also lob a 200/220 grain bullet with a 0.546 BC, quite the versatile little bugger .

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/30-06SpringfieldWeb1.pdf

Their TTSX bullets also have a higher BC than the TSX listed. However, there is no getting around the fact that a .25 bullet will have a better BC than a .30 bullet of equal weight, which starts to matter big time at longer range.

Not disputing the versatility aspect but I don't see them reaching 3600fps, especially with Barnes bullets.

The 257 Roy has 18grains more capacity than the .06 and typically uses much slower burning powder.

I could be wrong though.

[coop]

I love these my "caliber is better than yours" debates. Over the past 55 years at one time or another I've shot most common calibers and most common types of rifles. I've also been around a lot of hunters and shooters that have used a large variety of weapons. I've done a lot of research and reloading experimenting.

The one thing I learned is that if you really get down to ballistics and trajectory there isn't enough difference between, say a 270, 25-06, 30-06, 7 Mag, 308, or any other caliber in this range to make any one of them better than the other. A couple of hundred feet per second or a couple of hundred foot pounds of energy really doesn't make that much difference in the real world. Dead is dead and there is no such thing as over kill.

My wife hunted whitetail with a Savage 99 in 243 with my hand loads of 100gr Hornady SP bullets for several years. She got complete penetration on every kill she made and had good blood trails on all. I've seen hunters shoot deer with 270s, and even 300 mags that got poor penetration and poor blood trails.

People generally choose a rifle and a caliber based on there own preference or advise of friends. This is really as good a way to choose a caliber and rifle as any.

I'm referring to elk size animals and down.

We all base our opinions on our or our friends experiences. These are mine and yours may be different.

JC

[tigerscowboy]

So? The man has a question and he can't ask it? It would take you less time to click "new posts" than it would for you to gripe about a guy trying to make the right decision for himself

Right back at ya mate.

How about a thread on Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge vs Nissan vs Toyota?

[ElGatoBandito]

I love these my "caliber is better than yours" debates. Over the past 55 years at one time or another I've shot most common calibers and most common types of rifles. I've also been around a lot of hunters and shooters that have used a large variety of weapons. I've done a lot of research and reloading experimenting.

The one thing I learned is that if you really get down to ballistics and trajectory there isn't enough difference between, say a 270, 25-06, 30-06, 7 Mag, 308, or any other caliber in this range to make any one of them better than the other. A couple of hundred feet per second or a couple of hundred foot pounds of energy really doesn't make that much difference in the real world. Dead is dead and there is no such thing as over kill.

My wife hunted whitetail with a Savage 99 in 243 with my hand loads of 100gr Hornady SP bullets for several years. She got complete penetration on every kill she made and had good blood trails on all. I've seen hunters shoot deer with 270s, and even 300 mags that got poor penetration and poor blood trails.

People generally choose a rifle and a caliber based on there own preference or advise of friends. This is really as good a way to choose a caliber and rifle as any.

I'm referring to elk size animals and down.

We all base our opinions on our or our friends experiences. These are mine and yours may be different.

JC

You say there is no such thing as overkill, dead is dead... and you may be right. But I can kill (a texas whitetail) just as quick with a .223 as I can with a .270, a .300 win mag, a .338 lapua, a .408 cheytac, a .50 BMG, a 20x114, or a Rheinmetall 120 mm gun. But where the difference lies is the difference between running into something and totaling your vehicle at 35 mph or slamming into a concrete overpass at 180 mph. The carnage that follows "totaled" is the issue. Destroying 1/2 your meat because you shoot it with a massive cartridge is wasteful. I could have a little of that training from my grandfather (who taught me everything I know in reference to disassembling deer, who was a child of the depression and wastes the absolute minimum in meat) showing itself, but this whole "Dead is dead" is a misnomer and very misleading.

[panhandlehunter]

You could kill every animal in North America with a 223. But it's not the wisest choice. And I don't think it's a wise choice for deer. There's not much meat on the front shoulders anyway. If you're worried about meat shoot them in the head.

[coop]

You say there is no such thing as overkill, dead is dead... and you may be right. But I can kill (a texas whitetail) just as quick with a .223 as I can with a .270, a .300 win mag, a .338 lapua, a .408 cheytac, a .50 BMG, a 20x114, or a Rheinmetall 120 mm gun. But where the difference lies is the difference between running into something and totaling your vehicle at 35 mph or slamming into a concrete overpass at 180 mph. The carnage that follows "totaled" is the issue. Destroying 1/2 your meat because you shoot it with a massive cartridge is wasteful. I could have a little of that training from my grandfather (who taught me everything I know in reference to disassembling deer, who was a child of the depression and wastes the absolute minimum in meat) showing itself, but this whole "Dead is dead" is a misnomer and very misleading.

My mother and father were young adults during the great depression and I was reared on a small farm. I know very well about waist not and want not. However, how much meat do you really waist from the rib cadge of a whitetail? If you shoot a whitetail in the shoulder with a 223 you will destroy more meat than you will with a 300 mag through the ribs. Especially if you do your home work and choose the correct bullet. A double lung hit will bring down any animal. Some people still strip the ribs for ground meat but most throw them away.
I've seen it so it is my experience, as I said yours may be different.

[Seacoal]

My mother and father were young adults during the great depression and I was reared on a small farm. I know very well about waist not and want not. However, how much meat do you really waist from the rib cadge of a whitetail? If you shoot a whitetail in the shoulder with a 223 you will destroy more meat than you will with a 300 mag through the ribs. Especially if you do your home work and choose the correct bullet. A double lung hit will bring down any animal. Some people still strip the ribs for ground meat but most throw them away.
I've seen it so it is my experience, as I said yours may be different.

Shoot a deer with a .223 directly behind the shoulder, and one with a 300 win directly behind the shoulder. You're comparing apples to oranges with a shoulder shot vs a "rib" shot. 2 inches behind the should with a 300 win mag will cause much more damage and bloodshot meat in the shoulder area then a .223 in the same place. Both of them through the shoulder, and the comparison isn't even close.

That being said, the OP didn't ask about either

[coop]

Shoot a deer with a .223 directly behind the shoulder, and one with a 300 win directly behind the shoulder. You're comparing apples to oranges with a shoulder shot vs a "rib" shot. 2 inches behind the should with a 300 win mag will cause much more damage and bloodshot meat in the shoulder area then a .223 in the same place. Both of them through the shoulder, and the comparison isn't even close.

That being said, the OP didn't ask about either

I agree.
My point was that you don't have to destroy the meat if you can shoot and know your weapon.

If dead isn't dead which one gets back up?

We don't have to agree to be friends. Take care and shoot what you like.

JC

[Boomerang]

Look at the trajectories of various calibers and look at the .22-250! It will vaporize the vitals of whitetail dropping them in their tracks.

[Maxlab]

Of the two choices you mentioned I would go with the 270.