AR newbie questions

[hardtner]

I've had a DPMS in .223 for about 5 years. It has mostly sat in the safe except for a few hundred rounds of general plinking. It is set up right now just as it comes with open sights. I'm looking at setting it up for a little more accurate shooting for me and the kids to shoot targets and pigs and maybe deer for the kids. Probably no more than 200 yard shooting. I'm likely going to set it up with optics. A few questions:
--Red dot (Eotech, etc) or Vortex PST scope for what I am doing?
--What kind of accuracy can I expect from this gun? I'm not a big target shooter or reloader and never will be.
--What ammo would you suggest for hogs and small deer for the kids?
--I have some steel case ammo. I know that there are 2 "camps" on steel case ammo and I'm not looking to debate that. Just mainly want to know what type of accuracy can I expect from my steel case ammo relative to middle of the road brass case stuff.
--Finally, would you recommend a barrel upgrade for doing what I am planning to do and what would that typically cost in "pre-craze" dollars?

Thanks for all of your imput

[Gunner87]

If you are going to go with a scope then take a look at the Mark AR scope line from Leupold, and as far as ammo i always stick with a ballistic tip unless you are hitting them in the head. As far as your accuracy the area targets is 800 meters and point target is 500 meters, i qualified on the rifle range out to 500 and it hit targets all day long. so you are golden on that side. as far as the ammo casing i would stick to brass casing because steel casing shoots a little on the dirty side ( My personal opinion). and last but not least i would stick with the barrel you have. no need to upgrade and pay a arm and a leg for something you already have.

[Gunner87]

Red dots and EOTechs are amazing optics but no really something to use unless you are shooting no more then 75 yards. I will probably catch some kind of slack and disagreement on that but it is my opinion

[gator89]

I agree with both of the previous posts. You don't need to upgrade the barrel, it is plenty accurate as is. Now as far as optics go if your going to shoot it out past 100 yards a red dot is out. Sure it can be done but that takes practice and is still tough. My .02 I'd look into the mark AR from leupold or a Nikon m-223 or p-223. I had a 3-12 m-223 on my AR before and it was a great scope. The BDC reticle was dead on out to 600 yards if I remember right. But it was a little more power than i needed on my carbine.Maybe also look into a 1-4x scope which you might think fits your needs better. Now that I started to shoot 3 gun I'm wanting to swap my red dot out for a 1-4x. I have shot steel case ammo and I'm kinda on the fence about it. I shot the Hornady steel case and had no issues with it, but I did have some ftf with wolf and I steer clear of it now.

[BBReezen]

With good factory loads, it should stay around 1"@100 or little more. That's with a higher power scope and decent shooting discipline. I have a mark ar 6-18 on mine. It may be a little too high powered because most of its use is for coyotes in the 100-200 range. 3-9 or 4-12 range is prob better power range. I shoot 55gr Hornady Vmaxs at coyotes but they don't do much to hogs shot in the body, need head shots. I would recommend 52gr HPs or higher for deer and hogs. Use good ammo if you want good results.

[Tommyh]

Hunting hogs or deer, use a well constructed bullet designed for the job. 60gr partition, 55 or 62 gr tsx, heck even the ol55gr core lokt will perform better than a varmint bullet, with less fragmentation in meat.

Red dots are 2moa or more and not very good for precision work. A good quality scope with an AR style mount or super ghigh rings for proper cheeck weld or your neck is going to hurt shooting.

No need to change the bbl in this case.

[BuckTag]

I use a Eotech with 3x magnifier out to 200 yards for hogs. If price is an issue I'd go with that or a 1-4x scope. Take a look at the one mentioned above... The Nikon M223 1-4x scope with the BDC. If you like that scope then make sure you get a one piece mount for less moving parts and a solid mount.

Hunting rounds.... Stick with the corlokt or softpoints!

[BBReezen]

Burris P.E.P.R. Is prob the best bet on the one piece mount.

[Horitexan]

I would say a red dot (i.e. Eotech) is not your best bet, for your intended use - even though I, personally, use an Eotech (and 3x magnifier) on my go-to predator gun. I regularly drop coyotes at 100-125 yards but a decent scope is a more rounded/versatile way to go for a general purpose rifle. If I'm going to do any shooting over 100 yards, I start reaching for a different setup. Not because the red dot setup isn't capable but because a scoped rifle will be more accurate and make it easier.

The Leupold Mark AR is a good option but I would also look at the Vortex VIPER PST 2.5-10X44 - I really like a 30mm tube. Especially if you're going to do any low light shooting like hogs. The added tube diameter will help you see a little better in low light. And I think the Vortex glass/coatings are even better than what's in the Mark AR scopes, for only $100 more. Of course, if you can afford it, get some REALLY good glass- you'll never regret it. Sight in dead on at 50 yards and you should be about 1" high at 100yds and about dead on again at 200. I like the simplicity of just putting the crosshairs where I want it and not having to worry much about hitting the kill zone- 1" (one way or another) isn't usually going to make much difference, unless you're going for a head shot on a bobcat.

I like heavier rounds, even though it tears up more fur, but you'll have to see how your gun shoots it. I'm not sure what the twist rate is on your rifle. If it's a 1:9 twist you may have trouble with the heavier (69gr+) stuff. If you have a 1:8 or 1:7 twist rate, it should like the heavier stuff. If it'll shoot a heavier round accurately, you just can't go wrong with more lead- especially for hogs and deer. I shoot 69gr, 72gr & 77gr most of the time; and always for hogs and deer.

My advice is: If you have a spare scope around the house, just put it on your AR and start shooting it. If not, get something that's as good as you can get within your price range and start shooting it. The point is: start shooting it. You'll find out what you like/want. The best thing about the AR platform is it's unbelievable versatility- the amount of options for how you set it up is only limited by your own imagination.

Enjoy!

P.S. The GS is a great resource for info on the AR (and its possibilities) but you can find an even greater well of knowledge about them on AR15.com, AR15Armory.com, SnipersHide.com and a few others.

[BowVista]

Following along. I've been thinking through all the same stuff.

[hardtner]

Thanks for all the responses

[Loneaggie]

I've researched the heck out of this the past couple of weeks. If you're going to be regularly past 75 yards a 1-4x quality scope is the way to go. Turned down to 1x you lose very very little speed, and at 4x you have the precision for longer ranges. I highly recommend this video:

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I AGREE, PLAY EMBEDDED VIDEO

[Horitexan]

I've researched the heck out of this the past couple of weeks. If you're going to be regularly past 75 yards a 1-4x quality scope is the way to go. Turned down to 1x you lose very very little speed, and at 4x you have the precision for longer ranges. I highly recommend this video:

X2

That's a great video. I haven't watched it all (yet) but I agree with a lot of his conclusions. If you have the money to blow, the high end optics are great; but they aren't necessary for most people. I had to laugh when he slammed the nightForce 3.5-15x50 NXS because I have a 3.5-15x56 NXS (actually 31 ounces) and its an absolute BEAST! I have it mounted on a 18" Larue Stealth with a 13.2" rail and that rifle is ungodly heavy. It's a tack-driver but absolutely NO fun to carry around hunting predators; and because of the cost, I baby the durn thing and am hesitant to paint it - in case I want/need to sell it. Honestly, I would probably sell it, and replace it, if it wasn't for two particular features - the ability to gather an enormous amount of light and the ability to infinitely adjust the illumination of the reticle. I can turn the illumination down to where its no more than a dull amber (can't even see the illumination during the day) which makes it perfect for shooting hogs in the moonlight - the amber reticle is just enough contrast to make it visible on a black hog at night, but not enough to interfere with your visibility in the moonlight

I agree that it's just not a requirement to spend a ton of money to get a great, and totally useable, scope for an AR. I would really stick with a variable power scope that starts at 2.5-3x, on the low end, but I would get something with an objective lens thats around 44mm or bigger and a 30mm tube for hunting. The smaller objectives and tubes will result in less weight, but will also restrict your ability to hunt in low light - the most 'prime' times, as we all know, for critters to move. I feel that the slight weight trade off is worth it for the additional light. A 2.5x or 3x scope is pretty durn easy to get on a close-in animal and, by starting in that (2.5-3X) range, you can get a scope that will adjust up to 10x+; which makes it a more wide-functioning scope (IMO) that will be easier for the kids.

Since I didn't watch the whole video, I can't say for sure, but it seemed like the focus was on a combat-oriented rifle and most of the shooting (I saw) was in full daylight. So, some of the conclusions need to be tempered/adjusted (slightly) because the OP's intended use was hunting - not defense/combat. Nonetheless, it's a great video with lots of good, practical, information that can really help in choosing a great general purpose scope without blowing an insane amount of money.

If you want a option for shooting extremely close range, if you had to) you could consider buying a mini red dot (like the Burris Fastfire II) and mounting it to the top of your scope. I have not run this, but I have seen people with it and it seems to work pretty well.

Thanks for posting the video - I can't wait to watch the whole thing when I have a little more time.

[park5115]

I had a vortex red dot sight on my AR but wanted to change it out for something with a bit for magnification for more precise shooting at greater distances.

I went with a Primary Arms 1-4x24 scope with an illuminated reticule. It performs similar to my old red dot at 1x but allows for much more precise shooting at 100+ yards when turned up to 4x. Wanted the Viper PST 1-4x but went with the cheaper Primary Arms and have been pleasantly surprised by its construction and performance. My only knock is that its heavy.

[Ecoboost]

Look into the Burris MTAC. They sell it as a package with a mount and the fast fire. You can also by the individually. I love mine.