TX gun laws??

[Loneaggie]

Relevant Code:

A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a han dgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf

[tvc184]

The premise of "no legal limit" is both true and false, according to how you take the statement.

The words "no limit" are people talking and not in the law. It simply does not exist. When people say the words no legal limit, others will assume that "no limit" means any detectable amount. Again, no such language is in the law.

The law says that you cannot be "intoxicated" while carrying under a CHL.

The Texas CHL is authorized under the Government Code Chapter Subchapter H, Section 411. In Subchapter H Section 411.171 it shows the definition of "intoxicated" as "the meaning assigned by Section 49.01, Penal Code."

Section 49.01 of the Penal Code is DWI. In the DWI statute it says that "intoxicated" is an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more OR "not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body".

So the legal standard that has to be proven for DWI or carrying under a CHL while intoxicated is 0.08 or more of alcohol or proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you have lost your normal mental or physical faculties. The part about the loss of faculties is where people get the impression that there is "no limit". That is correct as there is no limit of any intoxicant under that part of the law BUT the state still has to prove the loss of normal faculties. While there is no limit specified, there is still the burden of proof of proving intoxication and simply saying that any detectable alcohol is the law is not correct. If that was the law then it would say so plainly. The law never even suggests that any alcohol makes it illegal to carry under a CHL.

There it is. When people say there is no limit, that is not correct as the law list 0.08. Of course you can be intoxicated on "any substance" (including alcohol) that can't be measured like alcohol if there is proof that you have lost those faculties. How do that beyond a reasonable doubt? The same as with DWI. Slurred speech, unsteady on your feet, etc.

Of course we can remember that it is the exact same standard of intoxication as DWI so if you can be carrying while intoxicated under a CHL and you are driving, you are also DWI by law. You can't be one and not the other because they both have the exact same wording.

Speaking of DWI, if you are carrying concealed in a vehicle (under the UCW law and not the CHL law) and drinking, it is true that you don't have to announce that you have a handgun to the officer however if he arrests you for DWI, you also lose the protection of a handgun in the vehicle (what some people claim as the castle doctrine) because part of the UCW law on having a handgun in a vehicle is that it has to be concealed AND you can't be committing any crime other than a Class C (citation) traffic offense. So if you get arrested for DWI and they find a handgun in your car, you are going in for the UCW also.

The belief of many people is that if you don't carry while drinking, it is best because it simply makes it no issue. That may very well be a valid way to look at it but like the DWI I just mentioned, if you have two beers while out eating with the family and you don't carry because you believe that you might be carrying "while intoxicated", you'd better not be driving home either because if you are intoxicated under the CHL law then you are also under DWI as they both use the same wording.

[hully1029]

there are 2 definitions of intoxication in texas...

-bac of .08 or more
-not having normal use of physical faculties by introduction of alcohol, controlled substance, drug, or dangerous drug into the body

meaning that a guy thats never drank before can have 1 shot of jack and it making him "buzzed" and can still be dwi.. basically, if you have to ask yourself "should i or shouldnt i" i would go with the latter.. just my .02

edit: tvc beat me to it..

[tvc184]

there are 2 definitions of intoxication in texas...

-bac of .08 or more
-not having normal use of physical faculties by introduction of alcohol, controlled substance, drug, or dangerous drug into the body

meaning that a guy thats never drank before can have 1 shot of jack and it making him "buzzed" and can still be dwi.. basically, if you have to ask yourself "should i or shouldnt i" i would go with the latter.. just my .02

edit: tvc beat me to it..

Yeah but yours was short and sweet.

[junkmanhunter]

I hope you are prepared for about 40 wrong answers and a couple of right answers. If or when tvc184 posts up that is the advice to stick to.

^^^^^ and as usual, TVC shows up and speaks the truth!!' Thanks great info there.

[gumbl3]

Thanks TVC for taking the time to answer this so thoroughly

[Boomerang]

if you dont have a chl license and your not intoxicated then there is really nothing they can do. matter of fact you dont even have to tell them you have a firearm in the vehicle. i would but its not against the law not to. IF you dont have a chl

if you have a chl yes even if its in the console it is up to the officers discretion because by law you have to tell them your a chl holder

No you DO NOT have to tell them you have a CHL.

[Charlie6Delta]

Thanks LEOs. Both of you explained it perfectly. Better than any I have heard yet.
The way I see it, if drinking any alcohol makes you loud, argumentative or an *******. You better think twice before carrying if you have a CHL.
"-not having normal use of physical faculties by introduction of alcohol, controlled substance, drug, or dangerous drug into the body"
tvc, thanks for explaining the UCW part, that makes perfect sense.

[BTLowry]

Straight from the DPS website:
36. Can I carry a handgun when I am drinking alcohol?
§46.035, Texas Penal Code states that it is unlawful for an individual who is intoxicated to carry a handgun. It is important to note that the Penal Code defines “intoxicated” as not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance in the body.

The instructor did tell us "no minimum limit" but I did a quick look through the handbook I printed off for class and cannot find where it was.




No you DO NOT have to tell them you have a CHL.

The way I read this you do


GC 411.205
(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands the license holder display identification,the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license

[Mike D]

No you DO NOT have to tell them you have a CHL.

Not true.

Only the penalty of revocation was removed for non disclosure, you are still required to disclose.

[systemnt]

Not true.

Only the penalty of revocation was removed for non disclosure, you are still required to disclose.

Ding ding ding.. although..if the vehicle is registered to you..they already know.

[thomason]

I think that "CletusBodeen" has the correct response and answer for you

If you have to ask, don't do it.

[DirtNap]

Thanks TVC for taking the time to answer this so thoroughly

X1000... Thanks for the help guys!

[super_dave]

I bet if they pull you over for "suspected" drunk driving and they find out you have it with you, they will make you drunk.

[donpablo]

tvc184, you mentioned the UCW Law. Any idea what the handgun possession laws look like in New Mexico? We travel there to visit family a lot and I'd hate to inadvertently violate any laws.