Carry question

[bboswell]

I saw on Houston's new this AM that a school tutor was arrested and charged with a felony because she had a handgun in her car in the school parking lot.

Based on my CHL training and the attached information from DPS I'm not sure what law she broke.

What am I missing!

The term "premises" as used in section 46.035 "means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area." Penal Code § 46.035(f)(3); see also id. § 46.035(f)(1) (providing that the term "amusement park" does not include "any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."). This definition of "premises" was added after a witness testified in committee hearings on Senate Bill 60 that case law defines "premises" broadly, to include parking lots, driveways, and land adjacent to a building. Hearings on S.B. 60 Before the House Comm. on Public Safety, 74th Leg., R.S. (March 21, 1995) (testimony of Charles Cotten) (tape available from House Video/Audio Services Office). He was concerned that an individual who went someplace where concealed guns were prohibited would commit a crime by driving into the driveway. Id. He felt that the legislature intended that an individual could leave his gun in the car when he or she went into such a building. Id. Thus, while section 46.035 prohibits the carrying of a handgun at the foregoing places, it does not prohibit the carrying of a handgun in the driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area of a business that sells alcoholic beverages, a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event, correctional facility, hospital or nursing home, amusement park, or church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

[bassmatt72]

I don't know the details of what happened? There is a grey area if the parking lot is fenced with a gate, I believe it becomes part of the "premises" because it is no longer a public parking area?

[30-30]

Our chl instructor said that employees of a school cannot have a gun in their car on school property. Not sure if that's 100% true or not.

[chancito1]

My instructor said a firearm in parking lot was ok. I specifically asked this question because I usually would pick my kids up from school and go straight to lease.

[bboswell]

My instructor said a firearm in parking lot was ok. I specifically asked this question because I usually would pick my kids up from school and go straight to lease.

I did the same and got the same response.

[TxKronik]

If it was just in her car I would say no laws broken

[LWD]

Did she have a CHL? If so, I don't think it's an offense. If not, I think it may be a felony.

LWD

[tvc184]

1. I know of no law that distinguishes between a fenced lot or open lot. That seems to be speculation that is not backed up by any law.

2. I know of no law that distinguishes between an employee or another person for carrying firearms on campus. Like a teacher cannot carry but her non-teacher husband can.

3. A CHL is not a defense to prosecution in this section (PC 46.03 Places Weapons Prohibited).



The question therefore comes down to the meaning of 46.03(a)(1). It is listed as:

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

The way the law reads, as separated by commas (,), you cannot have an illegal weapon:
1. on the physical premises of a school or educational institution
2. any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted
OR
3. a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution.

Here is the way I read it but I really haven't seen any case law to back it up. The Penal Code is not usually redundant in stating the same thing twice in the same sentence. If we are to assume that "premises" and "grounds" are the same thing, that is what they did which doesn't seem to make sense.

If "buildings" and "grounds" were all including under premises (which is the dictionary definition), they why make a separate definition that is "only" for this section? I think we can all agree that is standard English, if you come in my yard, you are on my premises. But, for Sections 46.03 and 46.035 the PC defines a "premises" as only inside of a building or part of a building. Again, why define something that has no meaning?

The next part of the law that says on the "grounds" or buildings where an activity "sponsored" by a school is being held.

That to me, "sponsored" is the kicker. It is obvious that there are school events at a school. If the legislature only meant to allow you to have a firearm on campus while there were no students, I believe the wording would have been more like, "while school was not in session" rather that make a separate definition of premises. The one section that deals with grounds says "any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school...". So "grounds" is only applied to "activity sponsored by a school", therefore, not the school items which is covered under the definition of "premises".

I believe that the way it is worded the PC means in school buildings (PC definition of premises) OR "any" building where a school function is being held which can be a civic center for graduation, a theater off campus for a play, etc. It appears to me to be two clearly different meanings in the statute as is the case with most laws. Otherwise it would make the PC going out of the way to define "premises" as only inside of buildings meaningless. Why even have it defined for those sections only if they carried no meaning and everything was covered under grounds?

I believe that the law might have been improperly applied from the way I read it. Of course the DA can file charges on anything and it will then be up to appeals courts to say what the intent of the law was. If I was the supervisor on scene, I would say that no crime existed.

What I have seen offices and even DA's do is read part of the law and then stop. You have to read the entire section or otherwise you will miss something. I have had occasion to have the DA accept charges on a person and I pointed out that the law did not apply and have them withdraw the charges. It happens.

An example of reading an entire statute is 46.035 Unlawful Carry by CHL Holder where it says (b)(6), you can't carry at a church. But if you read farther down to subsection (i) it says "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

What we have is a law that says with a CHL, you cannot carry in a church.... but several lines later says that you must be given effective notice". Isn't that instead covered under 30.06, Trespassing? Every business can ban you with effective notice of trespassing. If you simply stop at (b)(6) it appears that it is automatically against the law only to find out later that it is not unless you were given notice under 30.06. Again, if you only read part of the law...........

In my opinion which doesn't count for anything? There was no offense.

[djb]

Was it a gun free zone?

[tvc184]

Was it a gun free zone?

According to federal law.

[LonghornsATX]

Is she protected by the castle doctrine? I'm not sure if it applies to keeping a gun in there.

[Bily Lovec]

if the school forbid employees from having guns in the parking lot, and she got caught, what would be the charge. ?

[huntinfool]

In my CHL class the instructor said there are a few places you can not carry. Schools, churches, sporting events etc. I can only speak for our local ISD, but it clearly states that they consider the parking lot to be part of their campus and therefore you can not possess a firearm. I think it is BS. If I have it locked away in a safe in my locked vehicle and I am not carrying it into the building, then I don't see what the problem is.

My wife works for the school and i have had to turn around many a day to take my firearm home.

[LonghornsATX]

if the school forbid employees from having guns in the parking lot, and she got caught, what would be the charge. ?

I'm curious about this too.

[huntinfool]

if the school forbid employees from having guns in the parking lot, and she got caught, what would be the charge. ?

Carrying a concealed weapon in places prohibited.