No rifled shotguns allowed at LBJ?

[Etxnoodler]

Age class in the herd is not a weapons issue, its an age class harvest issue. Restrict the harvest not the how. It makes as much sense as me saying you should only be allowed to use trad archery and handmade stone arrowheads because it's too easy to harvest all the big bucks with modern equipment. Just remember everytime you remove a group of hunters from the pool you lose that group from supporting the sport you love out there. The anti's are coming for you. You'll wish you had that support back when they do.
Oh and do they not allow gun hunting in Oklahoma? I'm sure they don't or they wouldn't have a better age structure, right?

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Way shorter season in Oklahoma. If it’s a harvest issue the only way to fix it is restrict either the how, how long, or how many (drawing).
The thing is, muzzleloader seasons started in other states because of efficacy, when people were using traditional muzzleloaders. Lower success rates allowed them to add the additional opportunity of a additional season without harvest skyrocketing. So what people that didn’t want to go through the hassle of learning a weapon did was make crap that is basically a single shot center fire rifle to get around the rules. Therefore increasing harvest rates and defeating the purpose of the season. I don’t know if rifled shotguns happened the same way or not. But probably did.

Also being more open makes game more visible (easier to harvest) especially with long range weapons. Being smaller units means more neighbors hunting the same animals. Couple this with increasing pressure due to increasing lease fees and you have a problem. And bullets don’t just go ricocheting through the forest. They aren’t rocks. If it hits a trunk it’s going to stop.
Or you could always have unrestricted hunting “within the current seasons” and hope to get lucky and be the first to see that 13 inch deer. Giving more opportunity but low quality / opportunity at legal game. Which reduces retention when somebody hunts for a few years and never sees legal game and gets discouraged and quits.

It’s all about trade offs. Unfortunantly Texas doesn’t have near enough public land To allow all legal hunting and people be able to spread out and hunt safely and game be able to sustain on the property. Especially so close to large populations of people.

[IkemanTX]

Age class in the herd is not a weapons issue, its an age class harvest issue. Restrict the harvest not the how. It makes as much sense as me saying you should only be allowed to use trad archery and handmade stone arrowheads because it's too easy to harvest all the big bucks with modern equipment. Just remember everytime you remove a group of hunters from the pool you lose that group from supporting the sport you love out there. The anti's are coming for you. You'll wish you had that support back when they do.
Oh and do they not allow gun hunting in Oklahoma? I'm sure they don't or they wouldn't have a better age structure, right?

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Method of take increases efficacy. A long firearms season most definitely ends up directly contributing to more mature bucks dead. It is no coincidence that archery only properties (and archery only counties in the case of Grayson county) have better balanced age structures. All deer stand a better chance making it through the season with archery or primitive firearm vs an easy 200+ yard method of take, and mature deer stand an even better chance because of their experience.

Using “restrict the harvest” as an argument on public land is an entirely different scenario than large tract private land. Management decisions on a county or state level have to be easily defined, and without gray area. Also, saying “restricting anything is giving ground to the anti’s” is a ridiculous argument. Over pressured ground leads to skewed buck/doe ratios as well as messed up age structures... especially when the harvest of does is so heavily restricted. If you don’t want to reduce overall hunter access, but need lower deer harvest.... you restrict the method of take to the lower efficacy methods. It’s simple math.

Oklahoma does allow gun hunting... just not 70+ days of it, and firearms seasons don’t line up with peak rut. These things lead directly to more mature bucks making it through the season.

I’m not saying that all public lands should have method of take restrictions, but if existing pressure on a place is causing an unhealthy herd dynamic then it should be managed accordingly. I much prefer a change in method of take to a property going into the draw system or turning to trash.


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[IkemanTX]

I agree with what Rolylane said. Why punish gun hunters?


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See my and etxnoodler’s explanations above. It’s not about “punishing” firearms hunters. It is about balancing pressure and harvest to maintain a quality resource.


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[rolylane6]

See my and etxnoodler’s explanations above. It’s not about “punishing” firearms hunters. It is about balancing pressure and harvest to maintain a quality resource.


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See my explanations and questions above and explain the evidence that supports your stance. Balancing pressure and harvest are not regulated by weapon restriction. Its done by harvest restrictions and limiting numbers of hunters. I guess we go with a draw system then.
And it may not be about punishing the firearm hunters but that's still the result. If they were banning archery instead I'm sure you would feel punished. Oh yeah, you wouldn't because you said you don't hunt there anyway.

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[Blood Trail]

See my and etxnoodler’s explanations above. It’s not about “punishing” firearms hunters. It is about balancing pressure and harvest to maintain a quality resource.


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Not all hunters are hunting horns.


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[rolylane6]

Method of take increases efficacy. A long firearms season most definitely ends up directly contributing to more mature bucks dead. It is no coincidence that archery only properties (and archery only counties in the case of Grayson county) have better balanced age structures. All deer stand a better chance making it through the season with archery or primitive firearm vs an easy 200+ yard method of take, and mature deer stand an even better chance because of their experience.

Using “restrict the harvest” as an argument on public land is an entirely different scenario than large tract private land. Management decisions on a county or state level have to be easily defined, and without gray area. Also, saying “restricting anything is giving ground to the anti’s” is a ridiculous argument. Over pressured ground leads to skewed buck/doe ratios as well as messed up age structures... especially when the harvest of does is so heavily restricted. If you don’t want to reduce overall hunter access, but need lower deer harvest.... you restrict the method of take to the lower efficacy methods. It’s simple math.

Oklahoma does allow gun hunting... just not 70+ days of it, and firearms seasons don’t line up with peak rut. These things lead directly to more mature bucks making it through the season.

I’m not saying that all public lands should have method of take restrictions, but if existing pressure on a place is causing an unhealthy herd dynamic then it should be managed accordingly. I much prefer a change in method of take to a property going into the draw system or turning to trash.


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Simpler math than regulating harvest restrictions? How so? The math doesn't change because you change the subject you apply it to. Restricting harvest is as simple as restricting weapons. Im not following your no gray area for state and local management statement. Are you saying they can't have separate regs for LBJ than other areas? If so, they already do and now they're making more. Buck/doe ratios and age structure are not skewed because of rifled barrel shotguns or a long season. They're skewed because of harvesting the wrong age class and not enough does removed. Again, why not change the harvest restrictions not the method. You think limiting weapon choice or a shorter season will increase doe harvest?
And when did hunting large mature bucks on public land become the major contributing factor for all decisions. I mean I like big deer too but its not why I hunt. I just like to hunt and all methods are good. I use them all.
And I didn't say restricting anything. I said restricting types of weapons and eliminating a group or part of a group of hunters. And it does give ground to the antis. Its ridiculous to think it doesn't.
And for those that dont know, there's plenty of big mature deer on LBJ already. My avatar was one. I shot him on private land (during archery season btw) but he roamed the public land. Our place is small acreage that borders it. I get game cam pics of large bucks every year during the rut and the public land is where they come from.

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[bossbowman]

See my explanations and questions above and explain the evidence that supports your stance. Balancing pressure and harvest are not regulated by weapon restriction. Its done by harvest restrictions and limiting numbers of hunters. I guess we go with a draw system then.
And it may not be about punishing the firearm hunters but that's still the result. If they were banning archery instead I'm sure you would feel punished. Oh yeah, you wouldn't because you said you don't hunt there anyway.

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[HR3]

My rifled shotguns are a lot more accurate than any smooth bore I have shot. One is a Savage 220 and the other is a Remington 870 with a rifled barrel. Both scoped and both in 20 ga.. I shoot the Remington accutips.

Agreed, I hunted with a smooth bore Mossberg 930 12ga and a Mossberg 500 12ga with a rifled barrel... Killed plenty deer with foster slugs but switched to Winchester XP3 Sabot slugs. They gave me better accuracy out to 100yds+

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[ABWGTX]

Doesn't everyone strip down naked, and only use Trad equipment? I might wear a loincloth, but that's about it. Most of the time I just chase them down on foot, while holding my skinning knife in my teeth.

Don't forget the new rule change. Those under 60 have to be bare footed. Any foot wear is ok for those over 60 except open toe stiletto pumps. Laughing Bucks would be disadvantaged hence an unsportsmanlike hunt.