2018 LBJ Grasslands

[RShockley]

And that 40% is just trails related. That does not include unit 47 or the 150 yards you are supposed to be from boundaries as well. I still don't understand why the entirety of unit 47 is closed to hunting. I would close hunting in the camping area but leave the rest of the unit open to at least archery. Building a range will never happen even if their was an appropriate place for it. It would cost money that the forest service simply doesn't have and would just close even more property to hunting. Also it would just be vandalized like past projects have been. It is not worth the headaches it will cause or the money it will cost. Also before just complaining about the forest service we need to ask ourselves if we have done anything to help them obtain the proper funding to maintain these lands. We can start with ensuring full and indefinite funding of the Land and Water Conservation Fund. Nothing will be accomplished and we will continue to lose huntable property if we just sit back and place blame on others.

[Turnkey]

It's much more than 1,903 acres that are not legal to hunt on. Here's the math.

75.5 miles of trail x 5,280' = 398,640 ft of trail.

150 yards either side of trail x 2 = 300 yds = 900'

398,640 x 900 = 358,776,000 sq.ft. divided by 43,560 sq.ft/acre = 8,236.35 acres of no hunting.

8,236.36 divided by 20,250 acres = 40% of the LBJ is unhuntable.

I worked on the Caddo/LBJ for 21 years and was there when the target shooting regulations were changed in 1996. It was the best thing to ever happen to the Grasslands. It became dangerous to the neighbors and users.

The FS was put on notice by lawyers representing adjoining landowners. One neighbor, who lived where the Grasslands Bed and Barn is now, had 11 bullet holes in his roof. One round lodged in his recliner that came through his window and 5 holes in his kids playhouse. I could relate many stories of dangerous incidents. Target shooters were the worst trash offenders.

The FS worked with the TSRA and NRA on the issue. The FS tried to find a location that would comply with NRA designs for shooting ranges. The NRA design requires a 1 mile downrange safety zone even with a fully baffled range. There was no place or unit that fit that requirement.

We had a meeting out in Unit 71 with the NRA, TSRA, DPS & TP&W. It was a Tuesday morning and when we arrived there were 11 groups of target shooters there. We stood on the mesa and could hear rounds ricocheting around us. The Forest Supervisor turned to the NRA and TSRA guys and asked what they would do if they were in his shoes. The NRA guy said "I'd have shut it down yesterday".

Budgets have been shrinking for many years. It's all they can do to pay fixed cost much less build a range and pay for maintenance and a Range Master.

The archery range is no longer there. Lots of vandalism and off road vehicle use resulted in closing Unit 49 to traffic.

Adjoining landowners are always a problem with ranges. They move in knowing there is a range and then start complaining about noise and mysterious bullets impacting on their property. I've seen someone claim an old corroded bullet had hit him that day. I've also seen claims of complete bullets (casing and all) coming from a range. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy with all the holes out a couple there himself.

At the end of the day, it's public land and should be free to use by the public, to include shooting. The problems come in when there isn't a set facilities and you get the disjointed layout you have with places like the LBJ. It's not one large chunk, it's 50 acres here, 200 acres there with a large block around around units 30/31.

[Razorback01]

It's much more than 1,903 acres that are not legal to hunt on. Here's the math.

75.5 miles of trail x 5,280' = 398,640 ft of trail.

150 yards either side of trail x 2 = 300 yds = 900'

398,640 x 900 = 358,776,000 sq.ft. divided by 43,560 sq.ft/acre = 8,236.35 acres of no hunting.

8,236.36 divided by 20,250 acres = 40% of the LBJ is unhuntable.

I worked on the Caddo/LBJ for 21 years and was there when the target shooting regulations were changed in 1996. It was the best thing to ever happen to the Grasslands. It became dangerous to the neighbors and users.

The FS was put on notice by lawyers representing adjoining landowners. One neighbor, who lived where the Grasslands Bed and Barn is now, had 11 bullet holes in his roof. One round lodged in his recliner that came through his window and 5 holes in his kids playhouse. I could relate many stories of dangerous incidents. Target shooters were the worst trash offenders.

The FS worked with the TSRA and NRA on the issue. The FS tried to find a location that would comply with NRA designs for shooting ranges. The NRA design requires a 1 mile downrange safety zone even with a fully baffled range. There was no place or unit that fit that requirement.

We had a meeting out in Unit 71 with the NRA, TSRA, DPS & TP&W. It was a Tuesday morning and when we arrived there were 11 groups of target shooters there. We stood on the mesa and could hear rounds ricocheting around us. The Forest Supervisor turned to the NRA and TSRA guys and asked what they would do if they were in his shoes. The NRA guy said "I'd have shut it down yesterday".

Budgets have been shrinking for many years. It's all they can do to pay fixed cost much less build a range and pay for maintenance and a Range Master.

The archery range is no longer there. Lots of vandalism and off road vehicle use resulted in closing Unit 49 to traffic.

Make it all archery hunting only and open the entire season to antlered and antlerless, no firearms except for shot no larger than #4, just like COE.

[JB3]

Make it all archery hunting only and open the entire season to antlered and antlerless, no firearms except for shot no larger than #4, just like COE.

I like.


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[jnd1959]

And that 40% is just trails related. That does not include unit 47 or the 150 yards you are supposed to be from boundaries as well. I still don't understand why the entirety of unit 47 is closed to hunting. I would close hunting in the camping area but leave the rest of the unit open to at least archery. Building a range will never happen even if their was an appropriate place for it. It would cost money that the forest service simply doesn't have and would just close even more property to hunting. Also it would just be vandalized like past projects have been. It is not worth the headaches it will cause or the money it will cost. Also before just complaining about the forest service we need to ask ourselves if we have done anything to help them obtain the proper funding to maintain these lands. We can start with ensuring full and indefinite funding of the Land and Water Conservation Fund. Nothing will be accomplished and we will continue to lose huntable property if we just sit back and place blame on others.

I will tell the story about 47. For years, my dad and I were the only ones hunting 47 for waterfowl. We always set up facing away from the camping area. The last time we hunted, someone set up across the lake from us, shooting towards the camping area. At the same time, there was a group camping there. We had just winged the last duck for my dads100 points and had gone out into the lake to retrieve it. Most of you that are duck hunters know that sometimes you have to shoot a wounded duck on the water. That's what we had to do. The camping group saw this and assumed we were the ones raining shot on their parade. Game warden was called and I spent a good 30 minutes explaining that a ringneck was not a readhead (readheads were 100 points, ringnecks were 10). It turned into a big mess. I don't think this was the only reason it was closed but it started the process. I think if the ones hunting accross from us were not there it would have been less of an issue as we had hunted there many times with campers without problems. It was a great place to hunt birds if you didn't mind shooting ringnecks. There were Mallards and teal also.

[Rich1201]

Make it all archery hunting only and open the entire season to antlered and antlerless, no firearms except for shot no larger than #4, just like COE.

This would be nice.

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[RNLedet]

Make it all archery hunting only and open the entire season to antlered and antlerless, no firearms except for shot no larger than #4, just like COE.

I'm hesitant because you're a razorback... BUT I'd sign that petition

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[Turnkey]

Make it all archery hunting only and open the entire season to antlered and antlerless, no firearms except for shot no larger than #4, just like COE.

Let's not suggest they start following the COE or we'll end up with a lot more stupid regulation.

Ya'll hear they closed Lavon to hog hunting during deer season? They claimed it was to prevent poaching deer under the guise of hog hunting. What it did was take away the 3-4 best months for hunting hogs and not do a **** thing to prevent the local Asians from doing whatever they want.

[Texas Grown]

Make it all archery hunting only and open the entire season to antlered and antlerless, no firearms except for shot no larger than #4, just like COE.

Not all the COE projects are like that, thankfully. Some have slug gun only programs, some are muzzle loader only, some are just like the TP&W gun draw hunts. Some have a max shot size of #4. Some have a max shot size of #2. Still others have different rules all together. All depends on what COE project your on.



Personally, I don't like giving the libs another reason why we shouldn't own anything but a shotgun for a firearm. Going archery only is just one more step in that direction.

[teamron]

How many of ya'll even remember when it was a firearm free for all on the grasslands? Who remembers the survivalists of the 80's shooting and blowing up stuff. There was no deer hunting, but plenty of automatic fire. Lots of shot livestock and well meters. Most of the land around the grasslands were and are still owned by the same families before the govt. started putting the land together. There will probably never be a shooting range on the grasslands because of the past. I for one would love to see one since I live right next to it.

[Texas Grown]

I was out there "trying to hunt" in the 80s.
Most of the time there was a hunter about every 100 yards or less.
Lots of people would get up and just start target shooting about 8:30 in the morning. It was a madhouse on opening day every year. I finally quit going on opening day of the general season, till rifles and pistols were banned.

The fish are biting. And there's hogs to be kilt. Gotta go!

[Froggy]

Anytime you give a government bureaucracy control of land it will be closed to the public a little at a time.

Think about this, with the 150 yd buffer around trails you lose approximately 4.6 acres of hunt-able ground for every 208 feet of trail. LBJ boast about 75 miles of trail. How many acres do you think that closes to hunting? (It's ~1903 acres)

The correct answer would be for the forest service to provide a dedicated range for handguns, long guns and archery. With a budget for range maintenance, to include trash removal. Instead they choose the option that limits usage.

How many of ya'll even remember when it was a firearm free for all on the grasslands? Who remembers the survivalists of the 80's shooting and blowing up stuff. There was no deer hunting, but plenty of automatic fire. Lots of shot livestock and well meters. Most of the land around the grasslands were and are still owned by the same families before the govt. started putting the land together. There will probably never be a shooting range on the grasslands because of the past. I for one would love to see one since I live right next to it.

I remember. It was dangerous. I had to stop a dozer operator one day because rounds from full auto rifles were zinging through the tress where we were working.

Another time I pulled up in Unit 71. Two guys had two 50 cals and a cannon and were shooting across two forest system roads. It was not uncommon to come across militia members and other survivalist types blasting away. I even encountered some KKK members. They wanted a permit to burn a cross.

[teamron]

I remember. It was dangerous. I had to stop a dozer operator one day because rounds from full auto rifles were zinging through the tress where we were working.

Another time I pulled up in Unit 71. Two guys had two 50 cals and a cannon and were shooting across two forest system roads. It was not uncommon to come across militia members and other survivalist types blasting away. I even encountered some KKK members. They wanted a permit to burn a cross.

Exactly! I do not miss those days.

[Texas Grown]

Exactly! I do not miss those days.

2X. I like it the way it is now (shotgun, muzzle loader, and archery), except for the doe days. Wish it was back to a draw for a permit for antler-less during the general season. A man could take is time, or all season, on selecting a doe.

[Blood Trail]

Sure wish they would allow straight walled pistols.


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