Age debate East Texas...

[Tshelly]

Age debate East Texas...

Mickey Hellickson and others did a study a few years ago that actually showed the accuracy of even the cementum annuli technique is not very accurate. Yes, better than the tooth replacement wear technique, but nowhere close to 85-90%. Relying on these aging techniques to set fines on hunters is a bad idea, IMO.



The overall accuracy rate they found for the cementum annuli technique was only 61%.



The split on their accuracy results was as follows:

Young (2.5-3.5) = 68%

Middle-Aged (4.5-5.5) = 53%

Mature (6.5-8.5) = 56%



Ideally, without having the deer tagged at birth, the best way to try to determine the age would probably be a combination of tooth wear, cementum annuli testing, and a historical photo record of a given deer (again IMO).

Send me a link to that study. I haven't seen cementum annuli testing at that low of an accuracy before. I was merely going off personal experience and what their website said




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[sweldo73]

FWIW, I adjusted the pic some to see if that helps our opinions. I don't necessarily see that as an abnormal bump on his upper shoulder as that is where the upper part of their scapula sits. His face does almost seem to have more age on it with the pic lightened up. Tough one without anything else to go on.

[sweldo73]

Send me a link to that study. I haven't seen cementum annuli testing at that low of an accuracy before. I was merely going off personal experience and what their website said




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Interestingly, deerage.com even quotes Hellickson about how CA testing is preferred for deer 3.5+, but they conveniently omit the results of his accuracy testing. Their citing an 85% accuracy rate seems to be a bit of self-serving cherry picking.

The PDF file I have is of a presentation Hellickson et al gave about their results, and how they decided to create new aging criteria that doesn't attempt to lock in a deer to an exact year of age. By grouping deer into age classes instead of an exact year, they said it would make management decisions more straightforward. The file is too large to attach here, so PM me your email address.

[TKK]

Ideally, without having the deer tagged at birth, the best way to try to determine the age would probably be a combination of tooth wear, cementum annuli testing, and a historical photo record of a given deer (again IMO).[/QUOTE]

I agree - we do all three on our lease and we are almost always within one year - our rancher judges tooth wear, lab provides theirs, and we track most all of our deer over the years via trail cameras and video

The other factor on tooth aging is supplemental feed. A deer eating mostly the natural habitat versus one that eats a lot of protein and cottonseed can cause different tooth wear

[sweldo73]

The other factor on tooth aging is supplemental feed. A deer eating mostly the natural habitat versus one that eats a lot of protein and cottonseed can cause different tooth wear

Yessir, and Hellickson (and others) have addressed that in their work. And just like us, they will often prefer chewing on one side of their mouth causing broad variation from each side.

[TKK]

Yessir, and Hellickson (and others) have addressed that in their work. And just like us, they will often prefer chewing on one side of their mouth causing broad variation from each side.

we have had cases of bucks whose tooth wear on one side looked like a 4 year old and the other side like a 6 year old

[lovemylegacy]

Yessir, and Hellickson (and others) have addressed that in their work. And just like us, they will often prefer chewing on one side of their mouth causing broad variation from each side.

I didnt think about this and it makes sense

[CCS2637]

3.5

[Horsefly]

I'm wanting to address the second debate.....what are you considering "sissy beer"?

[SwampRanger]

I must admit, this has been a good thread. Thanx Swamp Ranger

I try to spark a good conversation Calvin!

[SwampRanger]

I'm wanting to address the second debate.....what are you considering "sissy beer"?

Those dang little skinny Michelob Ultra....I think if your gonna drink that you should poor it in a cup so the Men folk don't have to see it!

[EastTexan]

Man they would be a tough one for me to swallow but I guess you know the rules when you sign up. The tooth deal just isn't accurate enough for me to risk fines and loss of tags over.

^^THIS^^ I'd want to see a picture before I completely stand-up for the guy, but I don't have a lot of confidence in ANYBODY toothing deer in East Texas. My hunch is their "scientific determination" is off by a year or two.

[J-DUB]

Swamp Ranger, just save me a few to ground check when i get back in January!!

[Horsefly]

Yes SwampRanger I'm in total agreement with ya on that!

[lovemylegacy]

I try to spark a good conversation Calvin!

You dun well