is it Genetics or is it food ?

[Encinal]

So chances are good his offspring will be bigger than he is regardless, since he's an outlier and breeding up.

I didn't say chances are good... there's a chance for every deer to sire bigger offspring, but chances are the best that that offspring will be smaller... because the father is already on the far right of the curve... but chances are good... he will be above the statistical mean of the deer herd.

Thats how I understand it.

[d_e_smith]

I'm talking about one on the far left side outlier buck that's breeding up to an average doe. If genetics can't be improved, that would indicate you also can't diminish them on that baseline. Was thinking from a pure prob/stats perspective that a bell curve would form between them and 99.7% chance the offspring falls between the two. Could be completely off-base on that though.

[Encinal]

I'm talking about one on the far left side outlier buck that's breeding up to an average doe. If genetics can't be improved, that would indicate you also can't diminish them on that baseline. Was thinking from a pure prob/stats perspective that a bell curve would form between them and 99.7% chance the offspring falls between the two. Could be completely off-base on that though.

Not a genetecist, so I don't have that info... But you would think that the phenotypic qualities of the parents would likely represented in the genes of their offspring....

For example... The chances of an offspring of a "big" outlier doe and buck would have a better chance to be big than the offspring of a "big" outlier doe and "average" buck.

[jkelbe]

I have heard that the Doe's carry the genetics. So if doe's offspring turns out a 150", then likely most of her offspring will be 150" even if a 125" class deer breeds her.

This is just what I have gathered from reading about deer farms. So does shooting spikes really doing anything if the does are the carrier of the genetics.

Interested to see how HF ranches improve their genetics and what the process is.

[txwhitetail]

Fortunately for some the era of high fencing has cut a lot of corners for managing a deer herd. Really makes true low fence ranches with great herds even more impressive.

[Encinal]

Fortunately for some the era of high fencing has cut a lot of corners for managing a deer herd. Really makes true low fence ranches with great herds even more impressive.

Many fenced ranches with native herds were low fenced ranches with great herds before the fencing.

[Capt.Bryan]

I have heard that the Doe's carry the genetics. So if doe's offspring turns out a 150", then likely most of her offspring will be 150" even if a 125" class deer breeds her.

This is just what I have gathered from reading about deer farms. So does shooting spikes really doing anything if the does are the carrier of the genetics.

Interested to see how HF ranches improve their genetics and what the process is.

On high fence ranches they feed, feed and feed more protein and food plots with adequate water sources. Then after evaluating what they have, they may opt to bring in breeder bucks and bred does.

One area I believe growing trophy deer that gets overlooked by alot of people is it is a 365 day a year process, the bucks have to be as healthy as possible before the growing of antlers even begins to reach full potential. Food plots should always overlap to prevent a void in nutrition while waiting for the next crop to begin to grow and minerals and protein should be available anytime. Native nutrition can also be enhanced but should never be replaced.

[d_e_smith]

Not a genetecist, so I don't have that info... But you would think that the phenotypic qualities of the parents would likely represented in the genes of their offspring....

For example... The chances of an offspring of a "big" outlier doe and buck would have a better chance to be big than the offspring of a "big" outlier doe and "average" buck.

Makes sense. The narrower the curve between the 2 should indicate you know about what you're going to get. Throw in recessive traits that occur at a higher rate than .03% and it throws a kink in the philosophy though.

[SamCollins]

Age
Genetics
Food source
3 key ingredients for big potential deer

[txwhitetail]

Many fenced ranches with native herds were low fenced ranches with great herds before the fencing.

So was the high fencing a business decision or for easier management? or both?

[Encinal]

So was the high fencing a business decision or for easier management? or both?

You'd have to ask my neighbor.

[KingsX]

You'd have to ask my neighbor.

All the surrounding neighbors?
I'm just asking because we had to fence out a few neighbors in the past on a previous ranch I was on but we didn't have to fence all of them out.

[Encinal]

We bought the ranch with 3 sides fenced for various reasons by the previous owners. The 4th and longest side was fenced by our northern neighbor when they fenced their entire ranch in 1997.

[KingsX]

We bought the ranch with 3 sides fenced for various reasons by the previous owners. The 4th and longest side was fenced by our northern neighbor when they fenced their entire ranch in 1997.

It happens. Yall have made more than the best of it that's for sure.
I think you remember that I am a free range hunter at heart but I do agree and understand the need for some neighbors to be fenced out. I also like watching the progress and theory's on what has been practiced on some of the HF places like yours and a few others. The opinions and theory's are endless it seems and I don't really see a need to argue much but healthy debating with examples of practiced methods interest me. We all have our ways of thinking and wording what we believe in and some have good debating skills. Some of us like me may not be able to put into words what I have experienced or believe and I may not be as intelligent as I think I am at times. Lol. Maybe most the time. Lol.
I really enjoy reading what people have done with their ranches and the deer herds.

[bukkskin]

Today, the native deer essentially everywhere are the result of selective culling - from the top. For several generations, the best bucks got shot and the crappy ones lived on to breed. The greater the hunting pressure in an area, the greater the effect on the genetics of that herd. IMO, that has shaped, to a variable but unknowable extent, the current baseline genetics.

That is exactly the way I see it also. The herd has been shot down for 50 yrs or so. The last 10 yrs it has probably reversed with deer management, but we have 40 or so years to go to break even