is it Genetics or is it food ?

[huntmaster]

now this is the kind of thread that keeps me coming back to TBH. good stuff fellas

[Buff]

I really wonder If the deer in Marion county live past 4.5.
I do it all, Thin the timber, control burn, food plots, unlimited protien, run the feeders year round and I still never see or even get a picture of a deer that I believe is over 4.5.
I dont know what kills them
Ticks maybe. I have roughly 500 acres that is between two lake developments.
pretty much no one hunts any where around me.
The folks feed them in their yards at the lake but we never see a 5 or 6 year old deer
You would think the 3.5 year old deer we let live 4 years ago would be wandering around somewhere.
We kill 7 does and 2 bucks every year and I would guess our buck to doe ratio is still 8 to 1

[Capt.Bryan]

So here are 3 deer, the first one is from the northern edge of the hill country north west of Brady. This deer was taken on a 600 acre ranch in which 200 acres are usually planted in winter wheat. I suspect the deer was 4.5 when harvested but it shows what genetics are possible in the native deer. With 3 more years no telling what would have been possible. This area was and still pretty much under an extreme drought.

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The next 2 deer are from one area along the trinity river but approximately 3 miles apart. The area has no farming and very little supplemental feeding, between these 2 locations is part of the trinity river refuge an area where they have not allowed deer hunting. So I would be pretty safe in assuming these deer are purely genetics (native) and age based with only native browse.

Not a great pic but the deer to the left is a 2.5 year old 13" ten point. The big deer actually broke off his right G4 but his frame is tremendous for this area. I have not taken a deer from this lease in 5 years hunting for a trophy. Average deer for here is 4.5-5.5 and 125"

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The last pic is a deer that was found dead in my neighbors pond after being released from being hung up in my property fence. Gives me hope that he spread his genetics around before passing. This deer is what gives me hope in planting and feeding protein year around.
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[Encinal]

Great read and lots of great info. now my 2 cents . It takes all three for a buck to make his full potential. if you take away just one the buck will not reach his full potential. poor nutrition, crappy genetics or just not letting a buck mature. however potential varies by location.

Just a small quibble, but it only takes 2 to reach potential. Age and nutrition.

Individual genetics ARE potential.

[JeffJ]

Just a small quibble, but it only takes 2 to reach potential. Age and nutrition.

Individual genetics ARE potential.

Kind of what I have always thought. Isnt there a study out that talks about changing genetics that have been in place simply through culling would take many, many, many generations?

The genetics are the genetics.

[Encinal]

There are other factors too...

Health (injury/illness)

Social structure

Non-Nutritional stress

etc...

Edit:Typo

[BrandonA]

There are other factors too...

Health (injury/illness)

Social structure

Non-Nutrituonal stress

etc...

I think in Texas Stress plays such a vital role especially in South/South Central Texas with the heat and other elements.

[JeffJ]

I think in Texas Stress plays such a vital role especially in South/South Central Texas with the heat and other elements.

Absolutley. And over the last 1000 years you have seen an adaptation. Look at the body size of TX deer vs deer from up north. Much smaller bodies in TX to deal with the heat. The northern deer are a lot bigger and thus able to store more energy for the hard winters.

Deer breeders have been trying for years to get northern blood deer to thrive and bring in their heavy horn genetics. Problem was they had trouble keeping them alive through the harsh summers.

[KingsX]

Absolutley. And over the last 1000 years you have seen an adaptation.

All the way back to 1015?
what management plan you been studying.

[d_e_smith]

I think in Texas Stress plays such a vital role especially in South/South Central Texas with the heat and other elements.

Can throw ETX into that as well. High heat, high humidity, tall trees acting as wind buffer. It's basically a pressure cooker.

[JeffJ]

All the way back to 1015?
what management plan you been studying.

smart arse!

You know what I meant

[KingsX]

Lol. Yes I did but I couldn't help myself.

[bukkskin]

Age and the best nutrition possible are going to get you the most out of the deer you have ,Yes.
But I think if those two things being a constant, Genetics can be the most important one of the three.

Think about it, say you owned 10,000 acres in Texas and all the deer on the ranch and within 200 miles in all directions died off from "whatever".

Now, TPWD offers to bring you 200 head to restock.

You can pick from native deer at Canyon Lake(no offense to Canyon lake area hunters or landowners.) or You can get them from one of Brittinghams places in South Texas.

Which deer would you pick to restock with?

To me there is a difference.

[deer farmer]

Age and the best nutrition possible are going to get you the most out of the deer you have ,Yes.
But I think if those two things being a constant, Genetics can be the most important one of the three.

Think about it, say you owned 10,000 acres in Texas and all the deer on the ranch and within 200 miles in all directions died off from "whatever".

Now, TPWD offers to bring you 200 head to restock.

You can pick from native deer at Canyon Lake(no offense to Canyon lake area hunters or landowners.) or You can get them from one of Brittinghams places in South Texas.

Which deer would you pick to restock with?


To me there is a difference.

It makes little difference if nutrition is poor. Move the brittingham deer to the piney woods where acid soils make poor food for the deer and the brittingham deer you transport in will not show in just one or two generations. According the the Mississipi study that started this thread, the canyon deer you speak of may improve by 35 % in the 2nd generation if nutrition is improved in that area.

[IbeHuntn]

TTT to good a thread to let die