Population dynamics

[Encinal]

Agreed. I'm with you there.

Just out of curiousity, on Las Raices in the "old days," were the surrounding landowners also trying to control population in a serious fashion or were the old partners pretty much on their own? That is a tough war to fight if the ones around you aren't helping out. Like trying to shovel quicksand.

Collingsworth County is 900 square miles, or about 576,000 acres. Alot of that is upland areas where the densities and population dynamics are not too far out of whack. We just started this cooperative this summer, and I think we have around 50,000 acres signed up in the program, with the bulk of that acreage along the river, in the areas that really need help the worst. I know we need more enrolled, but also think we are off to a pretty good start for the first year.

It's been years since I was in school for this kind of thing, and working in another field as a career I have forgotten alot. Last night I got out alot of my old books and started trying to get the wheels in the old noodle running right again. I have alot of reading and studying to do.

Our neighbor to the north is more than 100k acres... and they were doing very little effective management. All the does that were taken by the old partners just filled right back in from that place.

[Jethro]

Yep, that would be tough. And it explains very well the high fence. Alot of folks don't realize that most time the fence isn't about keeping things in, it is about keeping them out. But we won't go there and derail things.

Thank you for all of your input, I always enjoy your views on management.

[Encinal]

Yep, that would be tough. And it explains very well the high fence. Alot of folks don't realize that most time the fence isn't about keeping things in, it is about keeping them out. But we won't go there and derail things.

Thank you for all of your input, I always enjoy your views on management.

Well it doesn't really explain it because they fenced US off... heh

[Jethro]

Ooops!

[Redraider]

Jethro, glad you started this. We are just north of the pease river. Not all places are overrun with doe but some are which puts the ratio out of whack. We are in the out of whack area. We have a problem with once the freezer is full no more are shot. You have to be willing to shoot and donate for the good of the land. We have some really good genetics n are area. I have hunted the area since college 1992 when you had to have a permit by the state to shoot a doe and now it is a 4 doe county. To me, if you are a true deer manager then you have to take care of the doe as well. Guys/girls say they are trophy hunters and don't shoot any doe. After a few years the ratio will get out of whack. I know not ever stand and area has the density but you have to take care of your area.

[Jethro]

I got a pretty fair amount read in "A Practical Guide to Producing and Harvesting Whitetail Deer" by Kroll last night. Alot of this is coming back to me now. His thoughts on survey methods and their accuracy was good.

I think a good place to start is removing the nonproductive does from the equation. That will be hard this year with recruitment so low, hard to tell which does are productive or not. I think any doe that actually has fawns with her gets a pass. Culling bucks is harder, especially in a one buck county. Not alot of folks want to use their only buck tag on a cull.

[keddins]

Thanks for this read Jeff. We are only on a half section at Estillene and its hard to determine what is the best thing to do.

[Jethro]

I hear ya, hard to know what to do sometimes. I think the key is to focus not just on your property, but realize what is going on around you as well. Low fence you just have to think that way. Manage like you are managing a much larger property, because in effect, you are. Deer will move around to equalize whatever temporary change you gain.

Really, you need to talk to your neighbors and ya'll get on the same page if you can.

[youngbuc]

Jethro.. as always thanks for the read, I am looking forward to your findings and especially with the Coop you and your neighbors are implementing. If I am getting you and the others right, we should look to maximize our doe harvests this season and minimize the Buck harvests? I am guessing this means all Bucks, spikes, young and old alike??? Over the past couple of seasons I have had good buck groups early in the season (6-8 bucks in a group), this year I have only seen a young split 4pt & 8pt, do you feel that this is because of weather or due to everyone in the area shooting anything with horns,. not worrying about age of buck??? We have 3 main hunters on our property but we can see 6 stands on neighboring properties, so there is really no way to manage the area without some type of Co-op between all of us.

[Jethro]

IDK Jason, I am far from being an expert. Really, I am just on the leading edge of collecting data, and don't really know what I do or don't know yet, if you know what I mean.

One thing I really want to do this season to help get a better idea on buck/doe ratios, is for me and several of the hunters in my area that I know start taking a log of all the deer we see every time we are on the stand, or see deer in our area. It won't tell much about population density, but should say alot about buck/doe ratios and recruitment. It is something we need to do. Those numbers are just as big a piece of the puzzle as density, and the more sightings/data points you have, the more reliable it will be. That is something you can do too. You don't have to be a scientist, the math is pretty simple. Just start writitng it down every time you go out, and all the deer you see. Figure out the ratios and see what it is telling you. It might, or might not, be what you think. Kroll's book is pretty good at explaining the process, whether you agree with his management strategies of not.

The more I read and study this issue, and the more I see what is happening, the more I solidify my ideas for what needs to be done in our area. Your area, I don't know Jason, and can't tell you what you need to do. It may be very similiar, but you need to verify it against the needs of your herd. My very rudimentary plan for this year consisits of two main ideas.

1. Don't shoot a buck unless it is really one you want. Younger bucks, especially, should get a pass. Recruitment is going to be low this year, and who knows about next. There will probably be an age class down the road that is very limited due to poor recruitment. I think "conserving" the young age class of bucks will be very important the next couple of years.

2. Shoot does. Especially, shoot does that don't seem to be contributing to the system. Old does, that are nearing the end of their reproductive prime, dry does, barren does, those type of animals should be culled to reduce mouths and bring population down. Younger does that managed to raise fawns even under this years extreme conditions will probably get a pass from me, just because they proved to me they are producers. Think of it this way, if you have a doe standing out there, it needs to be one that is capable of raising you deer and bring up young bucks to load your system with. A doe that doesn't produce is just a drain on the system, and standing there in place of a deer that benefits your goals.

I love the bow, but I think the old 30-06 will definitely be getting some serious trigger time this fall. Probably Keedon and I will spend alot of time out in the field. He loves to shoot that custom Mike Bryant built .270 of his, and with alot of tags and a place to go with them, he could put a serious hurting on them. It will be a good opportunity for him to learn as well.

[youngbuc]

Thanks Jethro, and that is what I was thinking as well, actually we were talking about not even really hunting hard this year so the population to recover due to the drought. But I know I would love to have some meat in the freezer. It is good to hear on the bucks, I feel the same way, let them walk if they are young. Good luck to you and Keedon, he should have a lot of fun this season