Easton tuning guide

[enewman]

Are you going to move the rest and adjust the DW as suggested? Isn't close like being kind of pregenant? Until you have addressed ALL of the tuning and draw weight issues the shaft indications will be erred our or misleading at best IMO.

Like I just posted I cannot move the draw length. But since we are on this do you believe some one else can tune your bow. I don't.

And yes it is very miss leading. That was the whole point of this. The center shot was set for her arrows. The cams are in time. This was done by adjusting the cams till I got as close to 75 percent let off. This is by manufactures spec. Very few shops do that or even know that is how to set the timing. The cams are in sync. The bow is a 50 lb bow. It maxes out at 53 lbs.

Again the whole post was to show you. That people will look at this and believe it's a weak arrow. Fix other problems. Before the arrow. Its not weak. If it was weak you would not move the rest. It's funny that I have repeated my self several times on this. What I'm doing and why and yet you don't seem to understand what I was showing. This could be just how I'm wording it I don't know. what I'm saying, Easton says its weak. I'm saying it's not. There are other things you need to do. Address center shot, level knoc, address correct draw length. Make sure index the arrows. Set timing on all cam styles, sync the cams on hybrid, dual cam bows. How many people check to make sure that the top limbs are not pulling harder then the bottom limbs. Make sure grip is correct. I know that I know you know that cause you're stuck there.

Maybe we need to make our own book. The problem with that is to many ways to skin a cat. So which way is better.

It's like knoc problem how do you fix. Raise or lower rest. Raise or lower loop. Adjust limb bolts. Take out on one end and put in on other. Take the top cam out of sync. That's four methods right there. I'm sure there are a couple more.

[DRT]

I believe someone can set your bow for true center shot. I also believe that if the bow is set for your correct draw length, you have correctly spined and cut arrows, your form is good and you follow through properly that you will group the broadhead tipped arrows the same as the field points.

However I have never had that happen until the last bow I bought (Elite Energy 32) from CCR.

Every other bow I have owned I had to make adjustments when I paper tuned it.

[enewman]

Drt. If you are close to my draw length. Say less then .5 in in draw. I would say yes. But for me I could not tune a 28 in draw bow for someone. The torque I would be adding would be horrible. This is why I cannot set center shot for a longer draw then me. Setting center shot either by eye balling or a form of measurement is just a starting point. The center shot is determined mainly by how the string is in line with the rest as it is being shot. Six months ago I would have said set center and adjust arrow to that. I have now come to that is incorrect. This is where the split static yoke shines in adjusting that power stroke.

This is why I don't believe in it.

Now there is a guy I know that can do a dang great job tuning bows for people. He does it with bare shafts. I do think that if you can get a bare shaft close. Then once you put fletchings on. You prolly do not net much tuning to do.

But most people that send in a bow for some one to tune. Is they don't know how or they don't have the time or equipment to do it. Most of the time it's the lack of equipment.

[DRT]

Or lack of knowledge. It can be a time consuming and intimidating process. Many don't have a place to shoot where they can set up and not be on the clock or have to mind others on the range and such. I have no special equipment but I have a big yard and a solid back stop. Basically I use a heavy wire frame and some roll paper. Nothing special but it works. I can shoot a few and rest then go again to avoid fatigue issues. Not everyone has that luxury.

I see guys at the gun range shoot a box or two of ammo to get a rifle sighted in. I can usually do it with less than four rounds. Many times two. But that takes years of shooting and understanding of the process.

Many archers don't have the resources to manage tuning.

But I didn't say CCR tuned the bow for me. They set the draw length, center shot and made sure the cams were timed properly. That is all it needed with the proper arrows and good form.

[enewman]

To bowhuntntxn.

I went and read back through the post. Seeing where we got off. We are not we are saying the same on most of it just different wording.

I know jow to fix it. I know how to manipulate it also. The whole post was showing that I can take a very stiff arrow and make it look weak. This is where the Easton chart has the problem

There wording. Just as you have stated. We need to do some tuning. Yes. But the chart tells you this is weak reaction in bold letters. This is not a weak reaction. It is something is out of tune.
Just like there paper cart. Says weak reaction or clearance problem. Again if an arrow is to weak or stiff. This is not corrected by moving the rest. This is what I'm getting at. Hopefully this clears this up.

This is why in post number 3. I asked do you think this is a weak reaction. Not how to fix.

[Arrowsmith]

A lot of hair has been pulled out by people "attempting" to use the Easton tuning guide over the years. The Easton tuning guide does not address all issues that can cause errant arrow flight.

If you do not have a press (or access to one) and if you do not know how to yoke tune (especially with the bow you mentioned).......You could follow the Easton tuning guide verbatim and still not have the POI of your broad head tipped arrow hitting with your field point tipped arrow.

Even if everything else is perfect your cam lean has to be adjusted to remove any horizontal nock travel.

[SwampRabbit]

This thread is super-duper long. I'll admit, I got tired too quickly to read every argument. The Easton tuning guide has been very helpful in my experience in helping tune step by step. The key is to follow every step. Also, it is not an indepth guide into tuning every aspect of the bow. Alot of splitting hairs when the first sentence says "in general terms..." What did you expect, the Barnetts Bible for Bicycle repair?

I think for the most part, it assumes you have a bow that has proper string alignment (cam alignment if applicable) and limb timing. Once that is taken care of, then you tune the other stuff like nock position, rest/center shot, etc. It will cover what most folks need to know to tune thier bow/arrows. Sure if you have cam lean, this isn't going to help you fix that (although, if things are happening backwards, it might tell you something else if going on.) It doesn't even address form.

[hoyt21]

This thread is super-duper long. I'll admit, I got tired too quickly to read every argument. The Easton tuning guide has been very helpful in my experience in helping tune step by step. The key is to follow every step. Also, it is not an indepth guide into tuning every aspect of the bow. Alot of splitting hairs when the first sentence says "in general terms..." What did you expect, the Barnetts Bible for Bicycle repair?

I think for the most part, it assumes you have a bow that has proper string alignment (cam alignment if applicable) and limb timing. Once that is taken care of, then you tune the other stuff like nock position, rest/center shot, etc. It will cover what most folks need to know to tune thier bow/arrows. Sure if you have cam lean, this isn't going to help you fix that (although, if things are happening backwards, it might tell you something else if going on.) It doesn't even address form.

But what do u do if your arrow is perfectly level and you get vertical knock travel ? Do u follow this guide. I believe that, that is what Newman is getting at that things can be perfect and then you don't get the results you like so you go ahead and take your certershot, rest or level out of being perfect because the guide gives u false info.

Also can lean is not a bad things it's find the right kind of cam lean the bow needs

[Arrowsmith]

But what do u do if your arrow is perfectly level and you get vertical knock travel ? Do u follow this guide. I believe that, that is what Newman is getting at that things can be perfect and then you don't get the results you like so you go ahead and take your certershot, rest or level out of being perfect because the guide gives u false info.

Also can lean is not a bad things it's find the right kind of cam lean the bow needs

Exactly. I had to add some cam lean (at rest) to my CST. One twist in left yoke, one twist out of right yoke to get bare shaft and field points in same hole at 20. When this was done the Grizz Trick 2 broadheads were dead on with my field points.

[SwampRabbit]

Exactly. I had to add some cam lean (at rest) to my CST. One twist in left yoke, one twist out of right yoke to get bare shaft and field points in same hole at 20. When this was done the Grizz Trick 2 broadheads were dead on with my field points.

I am curious, can you explain how the lean affected the launch of the arrow that caused the two to have the same flight? Or at least impact at 20 yards?

[enewman]

Swamprabbit.

Let's see what arrow smith says but how I see it.

When you are moving your rest all you are doing is lining up,the power stroke. Getting the arrow straight in front of string.
Now some of us do not have a torque free grip. So some times you cannot get all the vertical knoc out of the arrow with the rest. This is keeping the rest with in reason. To center shot. You don't want the rear so far out the arrow is pointing off in Lala land. So you adjust your yokes.

That means if your bare shaft is hitting one side or the other of a fletch arrow. And I'm betting the bare will have lean in it. Then your still not in line. So the fletch arrow is trying to steer the point so it moves over. So,once you have the bare straight the fletch arrow will be straight and the fletchings are no longer steering the point. So they will have the same point of impact

[Arrowsmith]

I am curious, can you explain how the lean affected the launch of the arrow that caused the two to have the same flight? Or at least impact at 20 yards?

First let me preface this statement by saying there are a lot of different dynamics at work with different bow configurations. Also proper draw length, arrow spine, center shot and cam timing/sync is required for this process to work.

In most cases cam lean is caused by the tension that is created by the cable guide or cable roller guide.

Cam lean at the launch of the arrow creates horizontal nock travel which will push the arrow off line. A fletched field point arrow will recover and will still hit the desired point of impact. A fixed blade broad head tipped arrow which is more difficult for the fletchings to steer will hit right or left depending on the cam lean. A bare shaft with zero guidance will hit even more off line.

The cam lean needs to be adjusted at brace (at rest) so that when at full draw the cam launches the arrow straight off the string (no horizontal nock travel). The cam may be vertical at launch or it may still be slightly leaning. It depends on the bow, cable slide, roller cable guard and dynamics of the bows draw cycle.

PSE has started using a flexible cable slide to reduce cam lean.

Most of my experience is with Hoyts. All of my Hoyts need some amount of cam lean at brace to launch an arrow dead straight. If your arrow is launching dead straight your bare shaft will have the same POI as you field point arrow. If your arrow is not launching dead straight your bare shaft arrow will indicate this to you.

For Carbon Elements, Carbon Matrix or Carbon Spiders with a roller cable guard you need to dial in some top cam left lean to compensate for the roller guard stiffness regardless of the arrow stiffness.

[SwampRabbit]

First let me preface this statement by saying there are a lot of different dynamics at work with different bow configurations. Also proper draw length, arrow spine, center shot and cam timing/sync is required for this process to work.

I think those same assumptions are made buy the easton tuning guide as well.

In most cases cam lean is caused by the tension that is created by the cable guide or cable roller guide.

Cam lean at the launch of the arrow creates horizontal nock travel which will push the arrow off line. A fletched field point arrow will recover and will still hit the desired point of impact. A fixed blade broad head tipped arrow which is more difficult for the fletchings to steer will hit right or left depending on the cam lean. A bare shaft with zero guidance will hit even more off line.

I am following this. This is what I was assuming the impact was.

So what we are dealing with is the concept that something, anything, can cause the arrow to kick during launch. The fletching and broadheads have a steering affect that either stabilize/exasterbate the arrows ability to recover, and fly straight.

the position of the rest to the certerline of the string travel can induce this kick. So too can a centered rest, but a horizontal moving nocking point. Torquing during the shot is an issue as well.

I'm still a little confused:

Would moving the rest in the above scenario still not allieviate the flight issue? I would argue, if you have horizontal nock travel, aren't you not seeing issues because of recovery in the horizontal plane movement? Wouldn't spine have an impact on that?

Remember, depending on the lean and the direction of the lean, it could be that the arrow is moving in such a direction to be a "left handed" shooter impact. Meaning, what it was showing was really a stiff arrow with left to right nock end movement. I'm curious... in the case above. What the nock movement, due to cam lean left to right, or was it right to left?

[hoyt21]

I think those same assumptions are made buy the easton tuning guide as well.



I am following this. This is what I was assuming the impact was.

So what we are dealing with is the concept that something, anything, can cause the arrow to kick during launch. The fletching and broadheads have a steering affect that either stabilize/exasterbate the arrows ability to recover, and fly straight.

the position of the rest to the certerline of the string travel can induce this kick. So too can a centered rest, but a horizontal moving nocking point. Torquing during the shot is an issue as well.

I'm still a little confused:

Would moving the rest in the above scenario still not allieviate the flight issue? I would argue, if you have horizontal nock travel, aren't you not seeing issues because of recovery in the horizontal plane movement? Wouldn't spine have an impact on that?

Remember, depending on the lean and the direction of the lean, it could be that the arrow is moving in such a direction to be a "left handed" shooter impact. Meaning, what it was showing was really a stiff arrow with left to right nock end movement. I'm curious... in the case above. What the nock movement, due to cam lean left to right, or was it right to left?

The cam lean helps align the power struck so you don't move your rest

[SwampRabbit]

The cam lean helps align the power struck so you don't move your rest

That really didn't answer my question. I understand what cam lean does. My question was, would moving the rest still address the issue?