rangefinder questions-please help

[jackh]

i would like to get a rangefinder real soon. obviously i bow hunt but i also do some long range shooting. i would like something i can range out to atleast 1k yds. my question is about the range finders that have the arc features that compensate for shooting angles like from tree stands. how exactly does this work?

someone on another forum said they compensate for the elevation they are at to give you a "flat line" reading (from base of tree to deer, not from my bow 5 yds up in the tree down to the deer). he said this is the distance that gravity acts on the projectile, thus making it the only really important distance. does this apply to long range shooting but not bowhunting where a 5 yd difference in reading can be a big deal?

lets say i have a tree stand 5 yds up in a tree. a deer is standing 20 yds from the base of my tree. the hypotenuse of this triangle, or the distance the arrow flies will be like 20.6 yds. will a rangefinder with the arc feature shoot this as exactly 20 yds, while one without an arc feature will shoot it at 20.6 yds? if so, the juice is not worth the squeeze for me, id rather go with a higher end rangefinder without the arc feature. .6 yds will not affect my arrow flight in the long run.

sorry its long but its really been bugging me

[trjones87]

The measurement is suppose to equal the distance from the base. Is a deer is 20 yards from the base, shot your 20 yard pin whether you are 5 feet off the ground or 100

[jackh]

i dont think i will EVER shoot at an animal over 40 yds away. if im in a tree stand 5 yds up, the arrow will fly 40.3 yds from bow to target. a LRF without the arc feature will shoot that as 40.3, while one with this feature will shoot it as 40, correct? i guess what im asking is are rangefinders with the arc features really worth it when they only correct readings by like a yd, which is not enough to make a difference in arrow flight.

[trjones87]

I don't, We know all of our stands are at 20-22 yards and always keep mental notes on how far away trees, bushes and land marks are for reference. It's the distance from the base not the seat and.6 yards won't make a difference

[silentstare]

i would like to get a rangefinder real soon. obviously i bow hunt but i also do some long range shooting. i would like something i can range out to atleast 1k yds. my question is about the range finders that have the arc features that compensate for shooting angles like from tree stands. how exactly does this work?

someone on another forum said they compensate for the elevation they are at to give you a "flat line" reading (from base of tree to deer, not from my bow 5 yds up in the tree down to the deer). he said this is the distance that gravity acts on the projectile, thus making it the only really important distance. does this apply to long range shooting but not bowhunting where a 5 yd difference in reading can be a big deal?

lets say i have a tree stand 5 yds up in a tree. a deer is standing 20 yds from the base of my tree. the hypotenuse of this triangle, or the distance the arrow flies will be like 20.6 yds. will a rangefinder with the arc feature shoot this as exactly 20 yds, while one without an arc feature will shoot it at 20.6 yds? if so, the juice is not worth the squeeze for me, id rather go with a higher end rangefinder without the arc feature. .6 yds will not affect my arrow flight in the long run.

sorry its long but its really been bugging me

your math is a little off the hypotenuse will be 25yards

Asquared + Bsquared = Csquared

C is the hypotenuse

so A is 15 yards your hiegth
B is 20 you distance fromtree to deer
so to find how many yards or the actual arrow flight path not relative to gravity

it is 15x15 = 225 + 20x20=400 total 625

take the square of 625 and it is 25 yards.

so if you "shoot" for actual arrow flight path you shoot for 25 when you should only be shooting for 20yards. of course the higher the worse it gets and then hunting on a hill or incline... you may want to consider you math...

[jackh]

no i said 5 yds up in the tree, not 15

5^2=25
20^2=400
425^1/2=20.62

arrow flight=20.62 yds
distance from tree to deer=20 yds

i did the math again with a stand at 10 yds up shooting at a deer 40 yds away. the hypotenuse was like 41.2 yds or something. 1 or 2 yd diff will not affect my arrow flight. i just cant decide if its worth it.

[bar2157]

Someone posted the following table here a while back. I too, was wondering if I wanted to spend the extra $ for angle compensation. As you can see, even at a height of 12 ft/3 yds POI is gonna be very close to POA. I concluded that for bowhunting, it wasn't worth my extra $.

Stand Height 12ft

Laser Range Horizontal Range
4 yds 0.0 yds
6 yds 4.5 yds
8 yds 6.9 yds
10 yds 9.2 yds
12 yds 11.3 yds
14 yds 13.4 yds
16 yds 15.5 yds
18 yds 17.5 yds
20 yds 19.6 yds
22 yds 21.6 yds
24 yds 23.7 yds
26 yds 25.7 yds
28 yds 27.7 yds
30 yds 29.7 yds
32 yds 31.7 yds
34 yds 33.8 yds
36 yds 35.8 yds
38 yds 37.8 yds
40 yds 39.8 yds
42 yds 41.8 yds

[txfireguy2003]

Okay, say you're shooting your LR rifle now at 500 yards. You're sitting on top of a hill and the target (deer, paper, steel, whatever) is in a valley 50 yards below you and 500 yards away (ballistic yards, not line of sight yards). Sooo, 500^2= 250000 and 50^2=2500...so take square root of 255,500=502.5 yrds line of sight. Would 2 yards make a big difference in bullet impact at 500 yards? IDK, depends on what cartridge you're shooting I recon, but not likely. Now, get out to 1000 yards and beyond, and I think a miscalculation of 5-10 yards might make a big difference, the bullet is slowing down and the rate of fall is increasing (gravity causes items to accellerate downward, 9.8m/s^2 to be exact, one second after the start of the fall, the object is moving downward at 9.8m/s, one second later, its downward velocity has increased to 19.7 m/s and one second later its falling at a rate of 29.5 m/s), so the further out you get and the longer the bullet is in the air, the more critical accurate ranging is. Now, that said, there are a few rangfinders on the market that will calculate bullet drop for you, given a 100 yard zero. For example, rifle sighted in at 100 yards, target at 600 yards, the lrf will tell you to hold "X" inches above the target where "X" depends on the caliber/velocity of the bullet you're shooting. This however, is like the "flesh colored bandaids that are exactly the color of nobody's flesh. Any rifleman worth his salt will have fired his rifle at that range and know EXACTLY how far his bullet drops at any given range, 200, 250, 300, 325, 350, 375 etc. He'll likely have a dope card with inches of drop/how many clicks he needs to put into the scope at a variety of ranges. The more ranges he has on his dope card, the closer to perfect the shot will be. IE, if he knows the bullet drops 36.25" at 500 and 42.5" at 600, but his target is at 530....what does he do? He estimates. But if he knows it's 36.25" at 500 and 37.75" low at 525, and 39" at 550, he'll again estimate, but 530 is just a shade over 525 so maybe dial in 38" of drop and hit the target dead on. I'm like you, I think the angle compensation features are a gimmick, and so are the bullet drop calculators. Scopes with bullet drop reticles are as well, unless you have checked your rifle/scope/ammo combo against the lines in the scope and noted any discrepancies. Just like you never trust your bow to shoot broadheads with field points until you have proven that it does, you cannot trust your rifle to shoot with those preset bullet drop lines. Just think about it, a rifle shooting 2800 fps is going to drop quite a bit more than one shooting 3400 or more fps, but the scope has no idea how fast that bullet is going when it leaves the muzzle, nor its ballistic coeficient, sectional density etc. Buy a good quality, line of sight rangefinder and be happy with it, unless of course, you plan on shooting off of Trump tower down to a target that is only 50 yards from the base of the tower. The angle compensation doesn't really make a big difference until you're talking REALLY long shots, or REALLY close shots with sharp angles. If you're 10 yards up a tree and the deer is 10 yards from the base, you're going to see a difference of almost 5 yards, but does your bow have a 10, 15, 20, 25 yard pin? Mine doesn't, I use the 20 pin for everything up to 20, then the next pin is 30.

[flyby]

Do you plan to hunt sheep or goats in the mountains? Possibly elk or bear? With BIG altitude differences between you and the target you "could" have enough change to make a difference. If you're making a 250 yard shot up a 30 degree angle mountain to your target that adjustment would be good to have.

For 99% of rifle hunting it's not necessary.

[Low Fence]

With out acr your range finder will always be long at incline or decline shots. Gravity is the same at any angle. "Arc" measures a true level range, which is what you would use to shoot spot on............................in bowhunting it is rarely and only in extreme cases that ARC is even a factor of 2+ yrds. But if you are wanting 1K shooting I would think its a must.

[XR650RRider]

At 1000 yards, you have a lot more to worry about than the angle. That's easy to calculate. Estimating the wind effect is another ballgame all together.

[jackh]

im not going to be hunting sheep or elk or anything in high altitudes for that matter. just spot and stalk whitetail, pigs, varmints etc in the hill country. when im shooting at long ranges where i guess angle would come into play, im only going to be punching paper, which means i will probably have a target set up at relatively the same height as me. im not on best of the west, i wont be taking 700 yd shots across valleys at elk...

i guess an arc feature just isn't worth the money. i dont know for sure, but i seriously doubt a 5 yd difference in ranging at 1k yds will affect bullet flight. if i was a marine sniper and i needed to be able to make a headshot at 1k yds, ya maybe. but if im shooting at that distance i will have a large target and will be happy with bullets just hitting it. maybe a few years and thousands of dollars from now, i will be much more skilled and not happy with those kinds of results, then i will spend a **** ton of money on a better rifle/scope and a better lrf.

[jackh]

Someone posted the following table here a while back. I too, was wondering if I wanted to spend the extra $ for angle compensation. As you can see, even at a height of 12 ft/3 yds POI is gonna be very close to POA. I concluded that for bowhunting, it wasn't worth my extra $.

Stand Height 12ft

Laser Range Horizontal Range
4 yds 0.0 yds
6 yds 4.5 yds
8 yds 6.9 yds
10 yds 9.2 yds
12 yds 11.3 yds
14 yds 13.4 yds
16 yds 15.5 yds
18 yds 17.5 yds
20 yds 19.6 yds
22 yds 21.6 yds
24 yds 23.7 yds
26 yds 25.7 yds
28 yds 27.7 yds
30 yds 29.7 yds
32 yds 31.7 yds
34 yds 33.8 yds
36 yds 35.8 yds
38 yds 37.8 yds
40 yds 39.8 yds
42 yds 41.8 yds

where did they get this data?