Active shooter in Uvalde

[Quackerbox]

EZ-10. I tend to agree but also you gotta realize the last few years has been horrible for LE aggressive mind frame. Officer calling on radio is a clue. Before I retired I would hear Officers calling before kicking in doors, vehicle pursuits were almost always terminated- and a supervisor responded to any and all use of force ( grabbing someone’s arm or pointing a firearm is a use of force). If the scales don’t start tipping the other direction it will get worse

Let's not forget guys scrambling on the ground trying to pick up their body cam while getting kicked in the back.

Cause policy says

Guys getting days off because "they should have been" bothered by what their partner said

Cause policy said


As for the scales tipping, I know more guys who'd retire tomorrow if they could vs stay extra time. It's not the job or the work, it's the climate and the policy writers


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[bloodtrailer28]

Say what you want the officer or officers completely failed to do their job. There is no excuse....lack of training or the way times are today. Training and times be dammed you have children in need you do what ****well needs to be done and face what happens later on.

This is coming from someone who backs the blue 100% dad is a retired LEO with 28 years in. I know what it takes to for someone to be an LEO and have lived the life of someone who saw their dad get hit by drunks had to be taken to the hospital for days after a wreck. Pops was in swat narcotics ect so I've seen it lived it and know what ita like to be the family and constantly worried about if they'd come home or not every night. The Leo's failed and there's no way around it.

[HogHunter34]

Agree. But I think this hamstrung reference is in reference to when shooter was still in the parking lot, and asked for permission to fire… and got no answer.

That’s even worse. Eyes on target & turns to supervisor & asks if I can shoot?
Still seems odd. I know lack of proper training has been discussed but shouldn’t the very basics of police authority be to engage & remove the threat especially in this scenario? He’s got a gun & already fired shots at funeral home & now on the move toward an elementary filled with children. Should this even be questioned? Is the protocol to wait until fired upon? Once he breeches the school it’s game over in terms of fatalities & time it’s gonna take to re-engage him & take him out

[tvc184]

EZ-10. I tend to agree but also you gotta realize the last few years has been horrible for LE aggressive mind frame. Officer calling on radio is a clue. Before I retired I would hear Officers calling before kicking in doors, vehicle pursuits were almost always terminated- and a supervisor responded to any and all use of force ( grabbing someone’s arm or pointing a firearm is a use of force). If the scales don’t start tipping the other direction it will get worse

I would get questions like you mentioned and would think to myself, why are you asking me this? I would usually meet with the officer later discuss why they were asking such a question.

I have kicked doors open, pried open windows and never discussed it with a supervisor even afterwards unless one read it in a report later and had questions. You certainly won’t find that nearly as much today….. if at all.

[glen]

Bloodtrailer- I agree- I think stopping to ask for permission is a big problem- Whether kicking in a door when needed- shooting a person- or any other situation where seconds matter. But it has evolved to this somehow over the last 5-7 years

[etbowhunter]

I was having a similar conversation with a retired Oklahoma DPS officer who now works in our DOT group. His explanation was almost word for word what Glen is saying as far as the mentality of most of the younger officers he knows. They've been beaten into submission by a total lack of support from Govt and now they second guess themselves when it's time to act. He also said that the longer it goes down this path, the harder it's going to be to get back. In other words, things are going to get worse before they get better. His words "better pack your own because you won't hesitate to protect yourself and family. I can't say the same for whoever shows up if you call them".

[Ætheling]

Stopping to ask permission before returning fire was a reality for our Military under Obama in OEF also. Some good men still in military prison for killing the enemy without civilian DOD permission.


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[justletmein]

I was having a similar conversation with a retired Oklahoma DPS officer who now works in our DOT group. His explanation was almost word for word what Glen is saying as far as the mentality of most of the younger officers he knows. They've been beaten into submission by a total lack of support from Govt and now they second guess themselves when it's time to act. He also said that the longer it goes down this path, the harder it's going to be to get back. In other words, things are going to get worse before they get better. His words "better pack your own because you won't hesitate to protect yourself and family. I can't say the same for whoever shows up if you call them".

I can see the lawsuits and news coverage now. "Officer shoots kid with his hands up surrendering without supervisor permission."

Curious why super never responded also.

[Quackerbox]

I was having a similar conversation with a retired Oklahoma DPS officer who now works in our DOT group. His explanation was almost word for word what Glen is saying as far as the mentality of most of the younger officers he knows. They've been beaten into submission by a total lack of support from Govt and now they second guess themselves when it's time to act. He also said that the longer it goes down this path, the harder it's going to be to get back. In other words, things are going to get worse before they get better. His words "better pack your own because you won't hesitate to protect yourself and family. I can't say the same for whoever shows up if you call them".

Spot on!

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[reconman]

Video about to be released from inside school….

[Shane]

Video about to be released from inside school….

If it made the cops on scene and their leadership look good, I'm sure we'd have already seen it a few weeks ago.

[PondPopper]

If it made the cops on scene and their leadership look good, I'm sure we'd have already seen it a few weeks ago.

And now we know!! Pathetic!!

[GarGuy]

Well it was just as bad as I feared.... maybe a little worse. Its hard to defend the lack of action in that video

[Bill]

Here’s an interesting article on states allowing teachers to be armed.

It’s says most teachers don’t favor it. But, across the country most teachers are also liberal Democrats.

https://dnyuz.com/2022/07/31/trained-armed-and-ready-to-teach-kindergarten/

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[Artos]

Uvalde just suspended all LE who were involved with the school shooting.