With loosing Arizona do we still have a path to victory?

[PlanoDano]

Where do you drawn the line between socialism light (social security, welfare checks, medicare, govt bailouts, $1200 checks) and Socialism all the way (tax reform, universal healthcare, universal education)?

I'm genuinely curious how you reconcile the difference?

Would you be in favor of removing all the existing social programs or just against new ones that come from more taxes?

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I think Social Security and medicare are on the "all the way" side and have plenty of opposition in the country. Medicare will be done in 2026 forcing the country to go to Universal Healthcare or some other way of funding medicare in this administration or next. Problem is we will never be able to fix medicare because every profit center along the way has more sway over our politicians than we do. If it goes down a lot of us will be one major sickness from bankruptcy. Social Security has been a target of leading conservatives for years. Mitch McConnell expressed he is looking forward to it's collapse. I bet if you polled this board you would find 25% to 30% dislike the system. Not everyone is invested into the system like government workers and some find it an inconvenience ie farmers and employers.

Socialism light would be things like the interstate highway system which hardcore conservatives could make a case for selling off and letting the new owners charge you to travel.

[MUZZYSLINGR]

[QUOTE=Reaper;1525077Thank you BlackoutRam2500,I would fall right into the catergory you described that would be taxed to oblivion.

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Yeah, when I get to that point I’m not going to work anymore.


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[PondPopper]

We all will be having to make a very serious decision very soon... Put some serious thought into your decision because it will have a huge impact on the future and the history of this country..

[diamond10x]

I’m not too worried about winning or losing AZ. Trump wins in the end. Won’t be tomorrow and it won’t be Monday but it’ll be before Jan 20. The TBH libs, never trumpers, and limp wristers will continue to spew their non sense of it’s over, give up. Until then, I’ll keep my chin up and support our president all the way through this term and through his next one!

[PlanoDano]

I'll chime in. So, yes we had those "bailouts" for a government mandated shutdown that effected businesses that ordinarily would NEVER shut down to the degree that they were forced to. I didn't agree with the $1,200 stimulus because #1 it was scaled meaning everyone didn't get it AND #2 it took months to get so who did it help pay their mortgage for the 3 months we were closed and the additional 5 months things were hampered?

We as a nation have accepted the fact that a social safety net will exist. It's not meant to bridge the gap between the rich and poor but to keep women, children, and the mentality ill/handicap off the streets. I think we can all agree that we have also accepted that some will game the system but over all it does more good than harm. Now, where socialism comes in is when you take from the middle class and technically rich ($250,000- $1,000,000 per year) folks in order to subsize for the poorer and lower middle income people in the name of "fairness". Why doesn't this work? #1 We DO NOT educate these people on how to be smart with their money in order to save and invest. #2 These are always government managed programs which means huge portions of the money intended for the people get sucked dry by administrators and worthless government managers. What would be the end result? Not more home ownership, not larger 401ks, not more millionaire's, not more small businesses, not a fairer society. Instead companies like Amazon, Walmart, Apple, Best- Buy, Activision, and Nike would boom like you wouldn't believe. We are a nation of consumers and during this election cycle the tech companies, that make ALL THEIR MONEY recording your browsing data and listening in to every conversation you have via Alexa so they can sell it to marketing companies, flexed their muscles and got their guy elected. Not for the good of the nation but for the good of their businesses. The middle class already pay 50% of their incomes in various taxes... taking another 5-10% that we would be saving to give to people who will spend every red penny only benefits them the Facebooks of the world! Trust me in 10 years when the dust settles the poor will have gotten way poorer.

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You are bringing some really well thought out points and I know it took time to put them together. Like you I was against much of the stimulus plan, not only the $1200 but I knew that the payroll protection plan was even worse as it was an invitation to commit fraud. I would expand the middle class you speak of to those making $150,00 to 1,000,000 a year. They pay even more due to having to pay a higher price for necessary services to make up for the service provided to those that cannot pay. I started out in the very poor class and have worked my way up to the investor class. Financial education is not intuitive or easy and in this day requires a lot of tough lesson along with a lot of luck. Good luck to those who are looking to 401K as a means to an end. I sincerely hope it works out but am afraid it was designed to make more money for the financial industry than for the investors. Finally, I have come to know business owners in that $250,00 to 1,000,000 who have hidden nearly every penny of profit, not through legal means like depreciation, but though income hiding and tax evasion. I certainly will not feel bad for you if the light ever comes to shine on your dirty rears.

[BlackoutRam2500]

You are bringing some really well thought out points and I know it took time to put them together. Like you I was against much of the stimulus plan, not only the $1200 but I knew that the payroll protection plan was even worse as it was an invitation to commit fraud. I would expand the middle class you speak of to those making $150,00 to 1,000,000 a year. They pay even more due to having to pay a higher price for necessary services to make up for the service provided to those that cannot pay. I started out in the very poor class and have worked my way up to the investor class. Financial education is not intuitive or easy and in this day requires a lot of tough lesson along with a lot of luck. Good luck to those who are looking to 401K as a means to an end. I sincerely hope it works out but am afraid it was designed to make more money for the financial industry than for the investors. Finally, I have come to know business owners in that $250,00 to 1,000,000 who have hidden nearly every penny of profit, not through legal means like depreciation, but though income hiding and tax evasion. I certainly will not feel bad for you if the light ever comes to shine on your dirty rears.

For the most part I can agree with $150,000 - $1,000,000. Hell, depending on where you live $100,000 a year can put you in the middle class but if you add a family saving will get more difficult. I thought about that Obama definition of rich and typed $250,000.

Yes, tax evasion is a problem but at the same time how much of a mans money that he earned is he entitled to try to keep? I take every write down that I can because in my line of work when it's good the tax man wants it all and when it's bad the tax man don't give a ****. I could've paid cash for a new Dodge with what I gave them last year... and this year I was blessed just to keep my own vehicles in my driveway. There is something wrong with the balance of a system like that IMO.

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[PlanoDano]

For the most part I can agree with $150,000 - $1,000,000. Hell, depending on where you live $100,000 a year can put you in the middle class but if you add a family saving will get more difficult. I thought about that Obama definition of rich and typed $250,000.

Yes, tax evasion is a problem but at the same time how much of a mans money that he earned is he entitled to try to keep? I take every write down that I can because in my line of work when it's good the tax man wants it all and when it's bad the tax man don't give a ****. I could've paid cash for a new Dodge with what I gave them last year... and this year I was blessed just to keep my own vehicles in my driveway. There is something wrong with the balance of a system like that IMO.

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I am with you. I take every legal deduction I can.