Well Crap

[LWC]

Then explain to me how the wages of the people I mentioned above, who work for companies and school districts that make A HELL OF LOT MORE THAN ME, pay their employees less than I do, but yet have zero illegal competition in the workplace.

The demand for a cashier at Wal Mart, HD, and Lowes is obviously less than whatever jobs you have to offer. I don't see what you have a problem understanding.

There are approximately 100 million cattle in the US. If a disease hit and 10 million of them died tonight, the price of beef would go up tomorrow. Do we agree on that?

US workforce is approx 150 million. Remove 10 million illegal workers tonight. (say congress made a law with a 10 year prison sentence - for the business owner- for every illegal caught working). What will happen to the price of labor? Especially manual labor? Would it be easier or harder to to find manual laborers?

[iamntxhunter]

When you add up all of the cost of illegal workers I think we the citizens end up paying more by default than we would if companies hired legal workers.

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[Ironman]

The demand for a cashier at Wal Mart, HD, and Lowes is obviously less than whatever jobs you have to offer. I don't see what you have a problem understanding.

There are approximately 100 million cattle in the US. If a disease hit and 10 million of them died tonight, the price of beef would go up tomorrow. Do we agree on that?

US workforce is approx 150 million. Remove 10 million illegal workers tonight. (say congress made a law with a 10 year prison sentence - for the business owner- for every illegal caught working). What will happen to the price of labor? Especially manual labor? Would it be easier or harder to to find manual laborers?

Good point. I can only assume that your field of employment has reached its “point”, with no illegal competition in your work place. Having said that, I have a nephew, who is only 20yo, that is welding in the oil field. He is making over $12,000 a month. Now, if the demand in my industry got to that point, a new school would cost at least 500% more, AT LEAST. Could you afford a 500% increase on your property tax burden? Like going from $7200 a year to $36,000 a year? I mean, it’s not like you’re going to make any more money to cover the increase, as you’re occupation has reached its “point”.

Do you remember when a 36 month car loan was the max you could get? Now we are at what? 84 month loans, just so you can “afford” it? Just imagine if the housing market went up by 500%. I guess we would go from 30 year home loans to 150 year home loans, but HEY, WE BE ROLLIN’ NOW!!!!

[LWC]

When you add up all of the cost of illegal workers I think we the citizens end up paying more by default than we would if companies hired legal workers.

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Totally agree. Let me choose if I want to buy a $5 tomato. I don't get to choose to pay for their health care, primary and secondary education, food stamps, housing, etc...

There is obviously not a simple solution. We need to address illegal workers and illegal's welfare at the same time. Not sure how we got to a point in the US where enough of our elected officials thought it was a good idea to give free handouts to criminals (illegals). Boggles my mind, but it needs to be corrected asap.

[Ironman]

Totally agree. Let me choose if I want to buy a $5 tomato. I don't get to choose to pay for their health care, primary and secondary education, food stamps, housing, etc...

There is obviously not a simple solution. We need to address illegal workers and illegal's welfare at the same time. Not sure how we got to a point in the US where enough of our elected officials thought it was a good idea to give free handouts to criminals (illegals). Boggles my mind, but it needs to be corrected asap.

I’ll tell you how we got to this point. When welfare got too easy to obtain for our “legal” citizens. What happened to the black workforce? When I was growing up in the 70’s, there was a very large black workforce in the construction industry. There were black concrete and masonry owners all over the place. Where are they now, and who replaced them? Did they move on to higher paying jobs?

[Hocks & horns]

Who said anything about a minimum wage???? I'm talking about a true free market Legal American Labor Wage. Without illegals forcing the market down. The true labor wage is much higher without 10 million plus illegals working at lower wages.

I figured Ironman would be along soon enough. He's usually arguing in favor of folks hiring illegals. Which is what has brought our border situation to the critical level it is. Speaking of economics 101, I'm only talking about simple supply and demand. Maybe we should call them widgets instead of illegal workers. It might be easier for you to understand. I don't claim to be the smartest guy in the room, but I do have a degree in economics

Pard your degree in economics obviously hasn't prepared you for the real world. Some jobs you can not count on Americans to do, no matter the pay. I and most of my friends pay over minimum wage with a free place to live. We provide jobs that require no degree hopefully just a little common sense. Help is extremely hard to find and most of the people don't last long. Look at the help at Walmart, Home Depot and lowes, they are 60yr old men and women doing the job. Why do you think that is?

[LWC]

Good point. I can only assume that your field of employment has reached its “point”, with no illegal competition in your work place. Having said that, I have a nephew, who is only 20yo, that is welding in the oil field. He is making over $12,000 a month. Now, if the demand in my industry got to that point, a new school would cost at least 500% more, AT LEAST. Could you afford a 500% increase on your property tax burden? Like going from $7200 a year to $36,000 a year? I mean, it’s not like you’re going to make any more money to cover the increase, as you’re occupation has reached its “point”.

Do you remember when a 36 month car loan was the max you could get? Now we are at what? 84 month loans, just so you can “afford” it? Just imagine if the housing market went up by 500%. I guess we would go from 30 year home loans to 150 year home loans, but HEY, WE BE ROLLIN’ NOW!!!!

I agree. The that prices of goods would go up...a lot. Wages would also go up, across the board. Things would eventually even out over a relatively short period of time. We have artificially (with illegal labor) lowered the price of goods. There is a reason that very, very, very few of our grandparents built 3500 sf houses with a pool. The main reason was, it wasn't affordable or economical. There might have been a handful in Dallas in 1950. Drive through any town in TX today and you will find them everywhere. Our economy might not be meant to have huge houses and $60 million hs football stadiums. We would have to see what the "new normal" would actually be.

But I don't like where this country is headed with our illegal immigration problem. I'd take my chances on legal workers and let the chips fall where they may. A couple more years going like we are going and it won't matter what we think. Socialist America will be a thing.

[Ironman]

I agree. The that prices of goods would go up...a lot. Wages would also go up, across the board. Things would eventually even out over a relatively short period of time. We have artificially (with illegal labor) lowered the price of goods. There is a reason that very, very, very few of our grandparents built 3500 sf houses with a pool. The main reason was, it wasn't affordable or economical. There might have been a handful in Dallas in 1950. Drive through any town in TX today and you will find them everywhere. Our economy might not be meant to have huge houses and $60 million hs football stadiums. We would have to see what the "new normal" would actually be.

But I don't like where this country is headed with our illegal immigration problem. I'd take my chances on legal workers and let the chips fall where they may. A couple more years going like we are going and it won't matter what we think. Socialist America will be a thing.

I don’t disagree that we have an illegal immigration problem. Read my post #50, and you will see why I think this problem exist. The welfare system created the immigration problem. It’s that simple.

[Hocks & horns]

I agree. The that prices of goods would go up...a lot. Wages would also go up, across the board. Things would eventually even out over a relatively short period of time. We have artificially (with illegal labor) lowered the price of goods. There is a reason that very, very, very few of our grandparents built 3500 sf houses with a pool. The main reason was, it wasn't affordable or economical. There might have been a handful in Dallas in 1950. Drive through any town in TX today and you will find them everywhere. Our economy might not be meant to have huge houses and $60 million hs football stadiums. We would have to see what the "new normal" would actually be.

But I don't like where this country is headed with our illegal immigration problem. I'd take my chances on legal workers and let the chips fall where they may. A couple more years going like we are going and it won't matter what we think. Socialist America will be a thing.

Socialist America isn't happening because of the illegal workforce, its happening because of none working Americans.

[LWC]

Pard your degree in economics obviously hasn't prepared you for the real world. Some jobs you can not count on Americans to do, no matter the pay. I and most of my friends pay over minimum wage with a free place to live. We provide jobs that require no degree hopefully just a little common sense. Help is extremely hard to find and most of the people don't last long. Look at the help at Walmart, Home Depot and lowes, they are 60yr old men and women doing the job. Why do you think that is?

No disrespect intended. But you are wrong about what I bolded. It does matter what you pay. Are you telling me that if there weren't illegal workers, we would not be able to find anyone to pour concrete or do roofing? People would just never replace their worn out roofs? No, the cost would just go up significantly. A $5,000 roof might cost $15,000. But there is a price where Americans will do very hard manual labor.

[LWC]

I don’t disagree that we have an illegal immigration problem. Read my post #50, and you will see why I think this problem exist. The welfare system created the immigration problem. It’s that simple.

I don't disagree. Both problems are equally to blame. Can't fix one without the other. Why don't we fix both? Why do we think that a wall will fix either? Why don't we spend the money and resources to fix the real problems? And quit worrying about a pipe dream..or concrete dream or whatever it is supposed to be built from.

[Ironman]

I don't disagree. Both problems are equally to blame. Can't fix one without the other. Why don't we fix both? Why do we think that a wall will fix either? Why don't we spend the money and resources to fix the real problems? And quit worrying about a pipe dream..or concrete dream or whatever it is supposed to be built from.

No, they aren’t equally to blame. The welfare system created a labor shortage. The illegal immigration simply filled the void. Now, allowing illegals to also milk the welfare system, simply can’t be tolerated.

[jer_james]

No, they aren’t equally to blame. The welfare system created a labor shortage. The illegal immigration simply filled the void. Now, allowing illegals to also milk the welfare system, simply can’t be tolerated.

I like to blame greed and a bottom line for the use of illegal immigrants.

[Hocks & horns]

No disrespect intended. But you are wrong about what I bolded. It does matter what you pay. Are you telling me that if there weren't illegal workers, we would not be able to find anyone to pour concrete or do roofing? People would just never replace their worn out roofs? No, the cost would just go up significantly. A $5,000 roof might cost $15,000. But there is a price where Americans will do very hard manual labor.

Have you ever gone to Home Depot or Lowes and asked for a pallet of concrete, 42 80lb sacks, to be loaded in your truck? Good luck! If you do find someone watch his expression, imagine that person doing it every day.

[Hocks & horns]

I like to blame greed and a bottom line for the use of illegal immigrants.

Bottom line is if you can't find the help or your business goes bankrupt