Clean Air and Coal, and Keystone

[AZST_bowhunter]

it just keeps getting better

I believe that a Christian Scientist chairing the House Science, Space and Technology Committee is a hypocrisy and a joke, and I'm certainly not the only one who believes this. Not as bad as an Islamic fundamentalist chairing the Homeland Security Committee, but still nonsensical. Kind of like Iran and Saudi Arabia having a seat on the UN Human Rights Council.

No, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that in the case of the Science, Space and Technology committee, a Christian scientist may very well fit the role. A Christian Scientist does not.

Try to explain that. What about a Methodist? That's who ran it under obama. Tell me the difference between a Methodist and a Christian scientist follower. Both believe in god, both believe in Jesus Christ, both believe god can heal the sick, in fact, if you read the tenants of the two without knowing which one you are reading, they are of the same belief. You wanted to make some point about this current chairman because he is in a trump presidency, while it means no more or less than any other "Christian" in that position. Did you lament the last 8 years about this position being held by believers? No? Then why not? Because until now, you didn't care because it was not something you could complain about.

Quick question....

What difference does it make if a Christian, Methodist (which is a christian), Muslim, or Atheist chair that position...? The argument at hand is about the environment, a non believing scientist and a believing scientist should have nothing to do with it. I mean anyone can see that any NOAA data on climate change is all politically biased and is a load of BS. Were aren't talking God vs no God we are talking environment.

[Landrover]

Is Christian scientist what Tom Cruise is???? Yikes!!!

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[Lostacresranch]

I have lamented it since the day he got the job after the 2012 midterms, although his predecessor wasn't much better.



There is a night and day difference between the UMC and the Christian Scientist church in regard to medical science.



Coincidentally, there is also a night and day difference between the UMC and most political conservatives on the major environmental issues of our time.

Well post up that link showing that difference. As I said, comparing the two using the web pages they created shows an almost identical ideology. Same beliefs. Same healing power of god, same biblical references. You may want to look at the Pentecostals, or baptists. Or Catholics. They actual infer sainthood on those that created miracles. No very scientific, but many are still allowed in positions of science, aren't they? You said what you said, because you wanted to make a point disparaging someone in a trump administration. I pointed out why you did it. I'm done if you are.

[Lostacresranch]

Quick question....



What difference does it make if a Christian, Methodist (which is a christian), Muslim, or Atheist chair that position...? The argument at hand is about the environment, a non believing scientist and a believing scientist should have nothing to do with it. I mean anyone can see that any NOAA data on climate change is all politically biased and is a load of BS. Were aren't talking God vs no God we are talking environment.

It makes no difference at all, and never has, unless you want to make a statement about a presidency.

[LFD2037]

Is Christian scientist what Tom Cruise is???? Yikes!!!

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Tom Cruise believes in Scientology. It has nothing to do with Christianity. The 2 are very, very different.

I believe vermin is saying the guy is a Christian Scientist, not a Christian who believes in science.

Christian Science is it's own thing.

Here are four beliefs that set Christian Scientists apart from other Christians:

1. Rejection of Original Sin:

In the Christian Scientists' perspective, the divine is completely good and all creations reflect that perfection. Humans are not born in sin, as ordained in the Bible, but are part of a divine and flawless reality.

Disease, death, and sin arise from distance from God. To return to the divine good, one must indulge in prayer to close that separation and start healing physically and spiritually. Many congregations emphasize spiritual healing sessions for that reason.

2. The Church Does Not Ordain Pastors:

Since everyone has divine characteristics, there is no need to ordain leadership. Ministers are replaced with studying the Bible and the doctrine work, "Science and Health."

Members democratically elect a First Reader to run church services. That individual reads passages from "Science and Health." A Second Reader, who is normally appointed, not elected, shares passages from the Bible, according to the church's website.

The First Reader also runs a Wednesday meeting which is an informal church service addressing the needs of the congregation. Participants share insights and healings they believed were facilitated by God.



3. Salvation Is An Everyday Process:

While salvation in other Christian religions is a sanctification of the soul to guarantee ascent into heaven, for Christian Scientists, it is a process that happens every day in life. The primary goal of salvation is to preserve inner good through actions performed each day.

Principles of this salvation-by-action include Life, Truth, and Love. They seek reform rather than a pardon for sins. The end result from these efforts is a life supported by harmony, health, and holiness, according to Beliefnet.

4. Emphasis on Spiritual Health Care:

Prayer is the first line of treatment when one suffers disease. There is controversy as some believers completely rejected modern medical treatment and replaced it with spiritual healing, putting them at odds with government authorities — especially when it came to their children's medical treatment.

However, the church does not specifically reject Western medicine. Christian Scientists believe it is up to individuals to choose their health care and the church emphasizes that it does not oppose professional medical intervention. It should be noted that its emphasis on 80,000 spiritual healings over 140 years strongly suggests a preference for spiritual health care that some may misinterpret, according to the church's website.

[Landrover]

Tom Cruise believes in Scientology. It has nothing to do with Christianity. The 2 are very, very different.

I believe vermin is saying the guy is a Christian Scientist, not a Christian who believes in science.

Christian Science is it's own thing.

Here are four beliefs that set Christian Scientists apart from other Christians:

1. Rejection of Original Sin:

In the Christian Scientists' perspective, the divine is completely good and all creations reflect that perfection. Humans are not born in sin, as ordained in the Bible, but are part of a divine and flawless reality.

Disease, death, and sin arise from distance from God. To return to the divine good, one must indulge in prayer to close that separation and start healing physically and spiritually. Many congregations emphasize spiritual healing sessions for that reason.

2. The Church Does Not Ordain Pastors:

Since everyone has divine characteristics, there is no need to ordain leadership. Ministers are replaced with studying the Bible and the doctrine work, "Science and Health."

Members democratically elect a First Reader to run church services. That individual reads passages from "Science and Health." A Second Reader, who is normally appointed, not elected, shares passages from the Bible, according to the church's website.

The First Reader also runs a Wednesday meeting which is an informal church service addressing the needs of the congregation. Participants share insights and healings they believed were facilitated by God.



3. Salvation Is An Everyday Process:

While salvation in other Christian religions is a sanctification of the soul to guarantee ascent into heaven, for Christian Scientists, it is a process that happens every day in life. The primary goal of salvation is to preserve inner good through actions performed each day.

Principles of this salvation-by-action include Life, Truth, and Love. They seek reform rather than a pardon for sins. The end result from these efforts is a life supported by harmony, health, and holiness, according to Beliefnet.

4. Emphasis on Spiritual Health Care:

Prayer is the first line of treatment when one suffers disease. There is controversy as some believers completely rejected modern medical treatment and replaced it with spiritual healing, putting them at odds with government authorities — especially when it came to their children's medical treatment.

However, the church does not specifically reject Western medicine. Christian Scientists believe it is up to individuals to choose their health care and the church emphasizes that it does not oppose professional medical intervention. It should be noted that its emphasis on 80,000 spiritual healings over 140 years strongly suggests a preference for spiritual health care that some may misinterpret, according to the church's website.

Thanks for a awesome response as I surely thought Tom Cruise!!! With that being said, if that is normal what u posted to folks I will stay a Baptist. ......lol. [emoji15] [emoji33] [emoji12]

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[Vermin93]

Well post up that link showing that difference. As I said, comparing the two using the web pages they created shows an almost identical ideology. Same beliefs. Same healing power of god, same biblical references. You may want to look at the Pentecostals, or baptists. Or Catholics. They actual infer sainthood on those that created miracles. No very scientific, but many are still allowed in positions of science, aren't they? You said what you said, because you wanted to make a point disparaging someone in a trump administration. I pointed out why you did it. I'm done if you are.

I voted for Trump in the primary and the general, which demonstrates how much I dislike Hillary and Ted Cruz. I'm not an ideologue and posses no political loyalty. I've disparaged and praised people in every administration that I've followed. I like some of what Trump is doing, I'm embarrassed by some of what Trump is doing, and I'm disgusted by some of what Trump is doing. I felt the same with Obama....and Bush....and Clinton.

As it relates to science, Christian Science teaches that sickness and death are not real, but illusions, and that Christian Science healing is more effective without medical treatment than with it. They made the news several times for letting children die from treatable illnesses. After years of lawsuits, prosecutions, chastisement by the medical community and falling membership, they have somewhat softened their image. These days they'll supplement your medical care with a Christian Science "treatment" for around $50, which they believe should be subject to the same tax deductions as medical care. Also, "there is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter". Matter is instead "mortal error" and erroneous. The physical world isn't reality, but an illusion. Welcome to The Matrix. The idea that a politician representing this belief system chairs the House Science, Space and Technology committee and orchestrates policy affecting scientific research and the physical reality of our environment is simply absurd.

If that's not enough and you're feeling metaphysical tonight, you can read all about it right here straight from The Mother Church

http://www.cslectures.org/Cern/CS-Fu...hings-Cern.htm

If you're interested in an interpretation from a Baptist Christian apologist who felt compelled to document the religious differences, you can explore this Christianity vs Christian Science comparison

https://oncedelivered.net/2008/04/03...stian-science/

[Lostacresranch]

I voted for Trump in the primary and the general, which demonstrates how much I dislike Hillary and Ted Cruz. I'm not an ideologue and posses no political loyalty. I've disparaged and praised people in every administration that I've followed. I like some of what Trump is doing, I'm embarrassed by some of what Trump is doing, and I'm disgusted by some of what Trump is doing. I felt the same with Obama....and Bush....and Clinton.

As it relates to science, Christian Science teaches that sickness and death are not real, but illusions, and that Christian Science healing is more effective without medical treatment than with it. They made the news several times for letting children die from treatable illnesses. After years of lawsuits, prosecutions, chastisement by the medical community and falling membership, they have somewhat softened their image. These days they'll supplement your medical care with a Christian Science "treatment" for around $50, which they believe should be subject to the same tax deductions as medical care. Also, "there is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter". Matter is instead "mortal error" and erroneous. The physical world isn't reality, but an illusion. Welcome to The Matrix. The idea that a politician representing this belief system chairs the House Science, Space and Technology committee and orchestrates policy affecting scientific research and the physical reality of our environment is simply absurd.

If that's not enough and you're feeling metaphysical tonight, you can read all about it right here straight from The Mother Church

http://www.cslectures.org/Cern/CS-Fundamental%20Teachings-Cern.htm

If you're interested in an interpretation from a Baptist Christian apologist who felt compelled to document the religious differences, you can explore this Christianity vs Christian Science comparison

https://oncedelivered.net/2008/04/03...stian-science/

I told you i was done if you were. Apparently you aren't.
First, who you voted for matters not. I don't care about how a religion practices. I don't care about tax deductions, or all the rest of your last post. All of that is irrelevant.
You spoke about a mans religious beliefs . In this case a Christian scientist, in a manner indicating disdain. I asked why, because it Doesn't matter. Every chairman of this committee has adhered to a religious belief. You want to assume all of these men could not function in the capacity as chairman because of it? No. You mentioned it because of an anti trump position. You can deny it, or just reread your posts.
Christian scientists believe that god heals. So do Pentecostals, Catholics , and a variety of others. Yes, I know the ones that make the media. I also know Pentecostals that let a child with leukemia die after refusing care and opted for prayer. It happens. Do all of them act this way? No. I doubt this man would either. Don't assume he would. And his beliefs have no bearing on how he chairs a committee. He has an outstanding record and participated in the creation of the only balanced budget we had in the past decade. He has no history or scandal or wrong doing. Judging him by his religion is wrong, and petty.

[Vermin93]

I told you i was done if you were. Apparently you aren't.

You weren't done. See the first sentence of your previous reply.

I don't care about how a religion practices.

I doubt that.

You spoke about a mans religious beliefs. In this case a Christian scientist, in a manner indicating disdain.

I said a man representing such beliefs is a poor fit to chair the Science, Space and Technology committee. You've grossly misrepresented those beliefs.

I asked why, because it Doesn't matter. Every chairman of this committee has adhered to a religious belief. You want to assume all of these men could not function in the capacity as chairman because of it?

I assumed nothing of past chairmen and focused on the one associated with a fundamental belief that sickness and matter itself are illusory. You asked for differences but now insist they don't matter. You asked for a link but now declare the content irrelevant. You observed an almost identical ideology and the same beliefs when it's well documented that's not the case.

No. You mentioned it because of an anti trump position. You can deny it, or just reread your posts.

You seem obsessed with Trump. I mentioned it because this post is about recent actions related to the environment that I find tragic and Lamar Smith is a primary accomplice to these actions.

Christian scientists believe that god heals. So do Pentecostals, Catholics , and a variety of others. Yes, I know the ones that make the media. I also know Pentecostals that let a child with leukemia die after refusing care and opted for prayer. It happens. Do all of them act this way? No. I doubt this man would either. Don't assume he would.

There is nothing physical to heal in Christian Science. Sickness, death and matter are all an illusion. Prayer to a personal God is a hindrance. Healing is essentially the mental denial of the sickness itself to reverse belief in that which supposedly never was. These are beliefs of Christian Science and I will assume he subscribes to them.

And his beliefs have no bearing on how he chairs a committee.

You have no evidence of this. His actions just as easily suggest the contrary.

He has an outstanding record

No he doesn't.

and participated in the creation of the only balanced budget we had in the past decade.

Nothing to do with his suitability for the Science, Space and Technology Committee.

He has no history or scandal or wrong doing.

He's a typical politician bought and paid for by corporate interests. Not surprisingly, his #1 industry contributor is oil & gas. Of course the GOP gave him the Science, Space and Technology Committee chairmanship. Fox guarding the hen house.

Judging him by his religion is wrong, and petty.

This implies there is no limit to what a man can believe that would make him inappropriate to hold this or any other leadership position. The idea that beliefs get a free pass if they posses some claim to religion may be a cultural norm, but it's completely illogical and dangerous.

[Lostacresranch]

Clean Air and Coal, and Keystone

You weren't done. See the first sentence of your previous reply.



I doubt that.



I said a man representing such beliefs is a poor fit to chair the Science, Space and Technology committee. You've grossly misrepresented those beliefs.



I assumed nothing of past chairmen and focused on the one associated with a fundamental belief that sickness and matter itself are illusory. You asked for differences but now insist they don't matter. You asked for a link but now declare the content irrelevant. You observed an almost identical ideology and the same beliefs when it's well documented that's not the case.



You seem obsessed with Trump. I mentioned it because this post is about recent actions related to the environment that I find tragic and Lamar Smith is a primary accomplice to these actions.



There is nothing physical to heal in Christian Science. Sickness, death and matter are all an illusion. Prayer to a personal God is a hindrance. Healing is essentially the mental denial of the sickness itself to reverse belief in that which supposedly never was. These are beliefs of Christian Science and I will assume he subscribes to them.



You have no evidence of this. His actions just as easily suggest the contrary.



No he doesn't.



Nothing to do with his suitability for the Science, Space and Technology Committee.



He's a typical politician bought and paid for by corporate interests. Not surprisingly, his #1 industry contributor is oil & gas. Of course the GOP gave him the Science, Space and Technology Committee chairmanship. Fox guarding the hen house.



This implies there is no limit to what a man can believe that would make him inappropriate to hold this or any other leadership position. The idea that beliefs get a free pass if they posses some claim to religion may be a cultural norm, but it's completely illogical and dangerous.

I should have stopped reading your post after the second notation, because it's now a rant. . As I said, you are judging a man based on his Protestant beliefs. He's a chairman of a committee. You seem to think he can't function as such, because of that belief, while ignoring that every other chairman in that position has also confessed to having Christian religious beliefs. I've pointed out that he has been scandal free, and has been involved in balancing the budget the one time it has been balanced in a decade.you say I'm wrong, but give no proof of this. You seem to think that no other religious sect believes in the healing power of prayer and belief in god. I've pointed out that others do, and named them. You say I have no evidence that this man would use medical aid above prayer. Neither do you have evidence that he would not. You say he is not suitable for this position, but give no reason other than his Protestant religious beliefs as a reason, but then add that it's a GOP appointment, as if that is a horrid fact, when it's just a reflection on your obvious disdain for trump. Your political bias is obvious. This man has done NOTHING wrong , but you convict him anyway. Whether it's politics or religion, you condemn him before he has Done anything to give you reason. Maybe you can point out a few more Christian chairpersons to ridicule for no reason.

[LFD2037]

You weren't done. See the first sentence of your previous reply.



I doubt that.



I said a man representing such beliefs is a poor fit to chair the Science, Space and Technology committee. You've grossly misrepresented those beliefs.



I assumed nothing of past chairmen and focused on the one associated with a fundamental belief that sickness and matter itself are illusory. You asked for differences but now insist they don't matter. You asked for a link but now declare the content irrelevant. You observed an almost identical ideology and the same beliefs when it's well documented that's not the case.



You seem obsessed with Trump. I mentioned it because this post is about recent actions related to the environment that I find tragic and Lamar Smith is a primary accomplice to these actions.



There is nothing physical to heal in Christian Science. Sickness, death and matter are all an illusion. Prayer to a personal God is a hindrance. Healing is essentially the mental denial of the sickness itself to reverse belief in that which supposedly never was. These are beliefs of Christian Science and I will assume he subscribes to them.



You have no evidence of this. His actions just as easily suggest the contrary.



No he doesn't.



Nothing to do with his suitability for the Science, Space and Technology Committee.



He's a typical politician bought and paid for by corporate interests. Not surprisingly, his #1 industry contributor is oil & gas. Of course the GOP gave him the Science, Space and Technology Committee chairmanship. Fox guarding the hen house.



This implies there is no limit to what a man can believe that would make him inappropriate to hold this or any other leadership position. The idea that beliefs get a free pass if they posses some claim to religion may be a cultural norm, but it's completely illogical and dangerous.

I haven't ever understood it, & you have now taken the crown @ it, I must ask, how do you 'multi-quote'? (sorry for all the grammatical punctuation's but I'm now highly intrigued to this grammatical smorgasborg)

[Landrover]

Interesting. .......I will geaux another direction. What if this chairperson was a practicing Buddhist, or God forbid a practicing Muslim ? Just wondering outloud honestly.

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[Lostacresranch]

Interesting. .......I will geaux another direction. What if this chairperson was a practicing Buddhist, or God forbid a practicing Muslim ? Just wondering outloud honestly.

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In this country, a persons religion should not be an indicator of job performance. The only thing that should matter is their capability to do the job. In our government, over 80% of our officials profess a belief in god. The majority of those are Protestant leanings. All of those believe god can heal the sick. So do moslems. And in a different way, budhists too. That doesn't mean these people are against science, or would prevent a committee of science from functioning.

[Landrover]

In this country, a persons religion should not be an indicator of job performance. The only thing that should matter is their capability to do the job. In our government, over 80% of our officials profess a belief in god. The majority of those are Protestant leanings. All of those believe god can heal the sick. So do moslems. And in a different way, budhists too. That doesn't mean these people are against science, or would prevent a committee of science from functioning.

I hear ya.[emoji102] "Should not"......is the operative word. America has never adhered to those tenants, but u never know.[emoji6]

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[Vermin93]

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