Interesting developments in LaVoy Finicum shooting.

[JW]

Shouldn't have reached for his waist...

I do have to agree that he did put himself in that situation. But they still murdered him in my opinion. I had kind of those the other way until the vid from inside the truck surfaced. Or maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part that it was all legit.

[Ætheling]

Wow, hard to argue with that. They didn't even care about the cowering women inside.

[tvc184]

But they still murdered LaVoy. And they're gonna get away with it.

I understand that there is a difference in opinion on murder or self defense.

I am talking about the rationale that tries to back up the belief of an intentional killing by using what happened afterwards. The problem is that some of what is claimed as proof of intent (firing into the vehicle after Finicum was dead) appears to be bogus.

It seems the belief is something like, "We know they killed him because they tried to kill those in the vehicle also"...... when there is no evidence that they fired anything other than tear gas/OC into the vehicle.

[M16]

I understand that there is a difference in opinion on murder or self defense.

I am talking about the rationale that tries to back up the belief of an intentional killing by using what happened afterwards. The problem is that some of what is claimed as proof of intent (firing into the vehicle after Finicum was dead) appears to be bogus.

It seems the belief is something like, "We know they killed him because they tried to kill those in the vehicle also"...... when there is no evidence that they fired anything other than tear gas/OC into the vehicle.

Did you see the cell phone video? It clearly shows Finicum raising his hands in the air after getting out of his truck. His hands are going up when a bullet comes through the roof of the truck. So what goes through a man's mind when he has his hands up and is getting shot at? If it was his intent to to fight to the end wouldn't he have come out shooting? Did the FBI agents taking potshots at him provoke him? How many rounds did the FBI fire? Were they shooting at or around him when his hands were raised?

[47]

Shouldn't have reached for his waist...

When you're stung by a wasp, say on the neck.... Do you remain still or do you instinctively, out of reflex, grab the area with your hand?

Some would argue he reacted as such to a round striking him there, be it a beanbag or fmj.

[47]

The FBI and others there knew exactly where they were headed, to the sherif office.

Long, winding road, one they had already closed to traffic so it's not like they were a "danger to the public" at that point.

They could have simply followed/escorted them to the sheriff office, arrested them etc. instead they chose to escalate the situation and illicit the response they desired to end it on their terms.

Even OJ, after having been suspected of brutally murdering two people, and after failing to turn himself into authorities, was granted the now famous "low speed chase" fiasco.

And let's not forget the Ferguson "protestors" who were given "space to destroy " bridges and hi ways to shut down...

[Ætheling]

The FBI and others there knew exactly where they were headed, to the sherif office.

Long, winding road, one they had already closed to traffic so it's not like they were a "danger to the public" at that point.

They could have simply followed/escorted them to the sheriff office, arrested them etc. instead they chose to escalate the situation and illicit the response they desired to end it on their terms.

Even OJ, after having been suspected of brutally murdering two people, and after failing to turn himself into authorities, was granted the now famous "low speed chase" fiasco.

And let's not forget the Ferguson "protestors" who were given "space to destroy " bridges and hi ways to shut down...

Seems like liberal/dem run executive branches treat liberal v conservative protestors a lot differently doesn't it. They don't like being told to stuff it by the right and the right usually end up dead for it.

[Ironman]

Just curious, but if they had made it to the Sheriff, would the Feds have less say so as to what they could do with them? I understand that laws had been broken, but did the protestors feel that making it to the local county law enforcement would allow them a "safe passage"?

[muzzlebrake]

Just curious, but if they had made it to the Sheriff, would the Feds have less say so as to what they could do with them? I understand that laws had been broken, but did the protestors feel that making it to the local county law enforcement would allow them a "safe passage"?

They surely knew what happened in Waco and Ruby Ridge.
I truly believe they were looking for some protection from local LEO.
Hard headed old rancher who wouldn't back down trying to get his young friends out safely. When he raised his hands in surrender he probably knew it was his time especially after the shot fired from above that may have come from the helicopter and he surely felt the flying glass and impact. He probably walked away from the truck to lure fire away from the girls. No question he was a brave soul.

[Tex]

Did you see the cell phone video? It clearly shows Finicum raising his hands in the air after getting out of his truck. His hands are going up when a bullet comes through the roof of the truck. So what goes through a man's mind when he has his hands up and is getting shot at? If it was his intent to to fight to the end wouldn't he have come out shooting? Did the FBI agents taking potshots at him provoke him? How many rounds did the FBI fire? Were they shooting at or around him when his hands were raised?

I don't know what was going thru his mind but I do know what was coming out of his mouth. There is going to be a blood bath. You're gonna have to kill me. The LEO can't read his mind like you can. They reacted to what they were presented with.

[jshouse]

They surely knew what happened in Waco and Ruby Ridge.
I truly believe they were looking for some protection from local LEO.
Hard headed old rancher who wouldn't back down trying to get his young friends out safely. When he raised his hands in surrender he probably knew it was his time especially after the shot fired from above that may have come from the helicopter and he surely felt the flying glass and impact. He probably walked away from the truck to lure fire away from the girls. No question he was a brave soul.

wow

[M16]

I don't know what was going thru his mind but I do know what was coming out of his mouth. There is going to be a blood bath. You're gonna have to kill me. The LEO can't read his mind like you can. They reacted to what they were presented with.

So killing people for what they say is okay with you?

[Tex]

So killing people for what they say is okay with you?

I never said that. But you assume that all the LEO's should have known what he was thinking You also assume he was going to go have a peaceful talk with the sheriff. All I'm saying is his words and actions don't match either of those assumptions in my mind.
He told the officer that he had more coming and their was going to be a blood bath. He almost hit an officer with his truck. He jumped out (with his hands raised) and began yelling at the officers to shoot him. He reached for his waist three times before getting shot in the back. That's probably two more than I would have had the nerve to let him.

[tvc184]

Just curious, but if they had made it to the Sheriff, would the Feds have less say so as to what they could do with them? I understand that laws had been broken, but did the protestors feel that making it to the local county law enforcement would allow them a "safe passage"?

The federal and local/county/state law enforcement has dual sovereignty. They have lawful jurisdiction separately and each has authority to enforce its own laws. You can even be tried twice for the exact same crime with the exact same facts even after being found not guilty in a trial as long as the state and federal governments have laws covering the same crime.

They must have thought they were heading for home plate and an umpire would be there and signal SAFE!!

[Ironman]

It's my understanding that he was indeed going to see the Sheriff. Question is, why didn't State and Federal law enforcement not want him to get there? Isn't the Sheriff different than all other law enforcement, due to the fact that they are an elected official? No one has answered this yet.

Edit: TVC answered my question......kind of.