Interesting spike study

[Drycreek3189]

Almost all spikes are 1.5 yr olds. I'm not sure how many thousands of dead deer I've looked at in 30 years in the range and wildlife profession, but I can only think of 2 spikes I've seen that were over 1.5 years old.

In all my years of hunting I’ll bet I’ve seen less than half a dozen spikes over 1 1/2 years old. I let one walk this morning, little one antlered yearling.

[Big pig]

Almost all spikes are 1.5 yr olds. I'm not sure how many thousands of dead deer I've looked at in 30 years in the range and wildlife profession, but I can only think of 2 spikes I've seen that were over 1.5 years old.

Apart from deer with strange injuries, this is what I have seen in nearly 60 years Of hunting in Texas.
Most of my 1.5’s this year are spikes. Rough drought year. But I am convinced they have might good genetics.
We don’t have enough free range deer or acreage to worry about culling anyway.

OP, thanks for the links

BP

[Big pig]

Family used to hammer every spike to the point hey we never saw spikes again!! Guess what else we didn’t see

Yep. Everybody wants an “excuse” to kill another buck. I was like that once too.

BP

[jdavidson]

Let me show you one

I totally agree with you on this. I’ve never personally seen a mature spike either. This study just states that, on average, 1.5 year old spikes are inferior to forked spikes in their older years.


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Duval Co 235lbs
Called him Spikezilla

[BRUTE 23]

We had a grad student give their findings one time at a co-op meeting and it was just as stated.

Kind of paraphrasing here, if you take 4 deer of simular rack stile, same area, etc. One is a spike, one a 4, one a 6, etc. At maturity the deer with more points scored higher. Did spikes become 140 8s or 10s, yes. But the 4s, 6s, etc consistently scored higher than that.

They also showed that we can not effect genetics on low fence properties long term. What ever you cull, you are only effecting the now, which is basically the food source.

They showed some pretty interesting stuff about culling deer at 3 years old which would be nice but a lot of areas have restrictions that will not allow that.

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[glen]

I’ve seen plenty of spikes over a year old. Saw one with swollen neck and pushing 170# at Chap my kid shot years ago. I know it was teeth aged but over 5 is what they said. I had one in my yard that I know was 3 years old in Georgetown because he got decorated for 3 straight Christmas years with different collars etc. He was branched on one side year 3- his name was Toby and Mom was killed by traffic. It’s just a deer. If you need hamburger or sausage shoot them. It takes a mouth off the food. Same with does. Shoot a young one as it takes years of mouths off the food source

[Tex_Cattleman]

They also showed that we can not effect genetics on low fence properties long term. What ever you cull, you are only effecting the now, which is basically the food source.

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BAM! Discussion over for 90% of the management/cull deer discussions we have here.

[Big pig]

Duval Co 235lbs
Called him Spikezilla

Thanks for sharing that.
Looks like a nilgai!!

[Marsh Bandit]

We had a grad student give their findings one time at a co-op meeting and it was just as stated.

Kind of paraphrasing here, if you take 4 deer of simular rack stile, same area, etc. One is a spike, one a 4, one a 6, etc. At maturity the deer with more points scored higher. Did spikes become 140 8s or 10s, yes. But the 4s, 6s, etc consistently scored higher than that.

They also showed that we can not effect genetics on low fence properties long term. What ever you cull, you are only effecting the now, which is basically the food source.

They showed some pretty interesting stuff about culling deer at 3 years old which would be nice but a lot of areas have restrictions that will not allow that.

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This would be interesting to read as well. I just like deer and sometimes I geek out on subjects lol. It would be interesting to see a study similar to the Comanche ranch where the smallest deer from each age class were taken. It could be averaged out based on the number of deer that need to be taken vs the number of deer in each age class.


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[TAMU84]

The big takeaway was the Kerr study was a controlled study. Yes if all does the same age. All eat the same percentage protein. All born the same time. One baby per doe. All bred to same buck. Have full access to feed Etc. yes the spike is probably inferior.
Low fence deer are not in a controlled study. Was that spike born late. Have brothers or sisters. Was his momma young. What feed does he get. Why is that spike always the first one at the feeder.
I used to believe the Kerr theory until it doesn’t apply in the real woods

[LivinADream]

I was fortunate enough to be invited to hunt on a ranch earlier this year that shoots all yearlings bucks(1.5 year olds)with less than 6 points.. 5 points and less die... And any buck 3.5 with 8 points or less dies.. It was a shock to me.
This is a 10,000 acre high fence ranch with 100% pure native genetics. I couldn't question the results of their program.. It was full of giant mature deer and VERY few 8 points.. I saw many bucks from 180"-210"...

I could very well be wrong, but I think MSU had a podcast discussing this exact thing. Deer of a certain age, I think it was 1.5, with less than 6 or 8 points die. In less than 10 years there were almost 0 bucks left.

Now that I think about it, maybe it was 1.5 with less than 6 and 2.5 less than 8.

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[Walker]

The big takeaway was the Kerr study was a controlled study. Yes if all does the same age. All eat the same percentage protein. All born the same time. One baby per doe. All bred to same buck. Have full access to feed Etc. yes the spike is probably inferior.
Low fence deer are not in a controlled study. Was that spike born late. Have brothers or sisters. Was his momma young. What feed does he get. Why is that spike always the first one at the feeder.
I used to believe the Kerr theory until it doesn’t apply in the real woods

This and all other studies have to be controlled so they can isolate a particular factor. A study without control is worthless. The Kerr has been doing studies on spikes since 1972 and have the largest pedigreed whitetail log in the world. If you've every had the opportunity to hunt there you can see the results of practice in the wild.

[TAMU84]

We actually tour there and went thru their study. Nothing wrong with their study and what all they accomplished
The only thing I’m stating is their results are correct. If you add back in the variables their results will not be as conclusive. I know deer breeders that had a spike become one of their top bucks.
All spikes in my book get a pass. I also saw where they check deer in at check stations they never saw a 2 year old spike. That’s not saying a old declined buck

[lazuras_dc]

I tend to not shoot spikes either after seeing a similar study. But I’d be tickled to shoot a 130-140 on the low fence place I’m at. So I think it depends on your setup and what you’re goal is.

[J Wales]

Do you want more bucks or less bucks? If your habitat can support more bucks, don’t shoot spikes.