Why no 18650 trail cameras?

[IkemanTX]

So the biggest thing about 18650s is you can’t charge them without damage in weather under 32F. Once you drop below 32F, you have to drastically cut back on the charging rate. Electric cars get around this by having a battery warmer. They are also prone to catching fire when improperly used. If you question this, you have never seen someone puncture and 18650 with a nail.


That combined with the initial cost of 18650s and the drastic range of quality means risk. I’ve purchased upwards of 200k 18650s in my previous life, and sourcing great vendors is an ongoing battle.

When charging at home, temp shouldn’t be an issue. My house never gets close to freezing. A camera based on 18650’s would still have all of the benefits of long term cost reduction i mentioned before.
For in-the-field rechargeable applications, i lean on NiMH. Less power density, and poorer low temp performance, but chargeable in low temps without damage.

Quality venders are getting easier and easier to find for 18650’s and even for 21700’s. 18650’s have essentially become ubiquitous in the market. I have dozens of lights, headlamps, camping accessories, and other various items running off of them, and their use is only growing. Dang near every backup battery bank on the market is built around them, many laptops still utilize them, most of your power drills use them, they are inside so many things in people’s homes that i think most people would be surprised. Quality control on the cells, chemistry stability, and reduction of thermal runaway problems have all been drastically improved in the last decade since the exploding Samsung phones and vape pens around 2016. Manufacturers were forced to improve the safety of their cells construction and chemistry.

I think it is an inevitability that some manufacturer will produce a camera utilizing them at some point. And i will buy one the day sales go live.


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[Kevin]

When charging at home, temp shouldn’t be an issue. My house never gets close to freezing. A camera based on 18650’s would still have all of the benefits of long term cost reduction i mentioned before.
For in-the-field rechargeable applications, i lean on NiMH. Less power density, and poorer low temp performance, but chargeable in low temps without damage.

Quality venders are getting easier and easier to find for 18650’s and even for 21700’s. 18650’s have essentially become ubiquitous in the market. I have dozens of lights, headlamps, camping accessories, and other various items running off of them, and their use is only growing. Dang near every backup battery bank on the market is built around them, many laptops still utilize them, most of your power drills use them, they are inside so many things in people’s homes that i think most people would be surprised. Quality control on the cells, chemistry stability, and reduction of thermal runaway problems have all been drastically improved in the last decade since the exploding Samsung phones and vape pens around 2016. Manufacturers were forced to improve the safety of their cells construction and chemistry.

I think it is an inevitability that some manufacturer will produce a camera utilizing them at some point. And i will buy one the day sales go live.


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How many 18650s have you sourced? How many factories have you visited? Lithium mines? How many have you tested in extreme conditions? How many 18650 testers the size of small cars have you purchased?

Everyone is an expert on the internet.


I’m not saying it can’t work, I’m just saying there is a reason there is a slow adoption. If you don’t think every trailcam manufacturer hasn’t considered this, you are naive.

[Big pig]

Here they are

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?promotionid=1643486&utm_source=general-promotion&utm_medium=email&utm_content=main-image-link&utm_campaign=muddy-trail-cam

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Didn’t work. What model is that ? Thanks

Sorry to interrupt battery discussion.

[IkemanTX]

How many 18650s have you sourced? How many factories have you visited? Lithium mines? How many have you tested in extreme conditions? How many 18650 testers the size of small cars have you purchased?

Everyone is an expert on the internet.


I’m not saying it can’t work, I’m just saying there is a reason there is a slow adoption. If you don’t think every trailcam manufacturer hasn’t considered this, you are naive.

You are right, there are only 600-700 cells in my home right now. I only have 6 chargers for them, and i have only sourced them from 10-12 different venders. I am by no means an expert. And still with my limited volume/experience I have been able to find quality providers of cells. Even if it does mean paying a 10% higher price for the quality/reliable cells, the long term payout is still a no-brainer.

Heck, my math in the first post was using premium grade cells at individual retail prices. Surely a large manufacturer could find margin in bulk orders from producers.

I would say that 5+ years ago the 18650 format wasn’t reliable/available enough, maybe even 3. But, as of the last couple of years… it is becoming almost ubiquitous.

If they can already be commonplace in
RC vehicles,
Flashlights,
Optics,
Backup batteries,
Laptops,
Passenger Vehicles,
Cordless Power tools,
Electric toothbrushes,
Electric razers,
Cordless vacuums,
E-cigs,
E-bikes,
Most cordless lawn equipment,
Countless medical devices,
…….
Then they can surely be engineered and sourced to work with trail cams.

I think it comes down more to fear of having to convince the consumer it is worth it than it not being a better solution. Consumers can be very slow to adopt change, and can take claims of long-term savings after higher initial investment with a HEAVY grain of salt. If there wasn’t the high risk of adoption failure, they would already be used in this market.

Yes there are lots of crap cells out there, but the math still works out when using genuine LG, Sony, or Samsung cells. Those cells are readily source-able, reliable, and consistent.


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[Kevin]

Ikeman,

Wasn’t trying to be a butthead in my post. Sorry if it came across that way. There is a liability related to 18650s that is a calculated risk. I’ve done puncture tests on 18650s by simply driving a nail though it and they react violently. Like, you better be ready cause it’s shooting fire violently.

I would also love an 18650 option for trailcams.

[OldRiverRat]

Didn’t work. What model is that ? Thanks

Sorry to interrupt battery discussion.

It’s these

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/muddy-outdoors-mtc100x-140-mp-trail-camera

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