Spikes?

[RJH1]

I think you are off on peak antler age by about 3 years.

I work on two different high fence places and have had these discussions with a very high-end scientific breeder, so I'm going to go with what I've personally seen and what he's told me.

One more interesting study that happened on peak age, I can't remember where it was maybe some googling could find it, but here's the gist:
Wildlife biologist types tagged 100 bucks, in Year One quite a few died in year two a few more died, almost none died in year three and four, very few were left in year five, and none of the group survived to age six and a half. If I remember right these deer weren't even being hunted it was just normal attrition, so waiting to shoot a deer at six or seven years old probably is not going to pan out anyway. And add in that every thing I personally seen and being told by people who actually do this stuff that five and a half is about the best they're ever going to be, I wouldn't let one get older than that.

These are just the things that I have personally seen, and gathered by people who are in the business. If you've personally seen things different you have to go with what you know, but I have to go with what I know

[jshouse]

I work on two different high fence places and have had these discussions with a very high-end scientific breeder, so I'm going to go with what I've personally seen and what he's told me.

One more interesting study that happened on peak age, I can't remember where it was maybe some googling could find it, but here's the gist:
Wildlife biologist types tagged 100 bucks, in Year One quite a few died in year two a few more died, almost none died in year three and four, very few were left in year five, and none of the group survived to age six and a half. If I remember right these deer weren't even being hunted it was just normal attrition, so waiting to shoot a deer at six or seven years old probably is not going to pan out anyway. And add in that every thing I personally seen and being told by people who actually do this stuff that five and a half is about the best they're ever going to be, I wouldn't let one get older than that.

These are just the things that I have personally seen, and gathered by people who are in the business. If you've personally seen things different you have to go with what you know, but I have to go with what I know

what part of texas are you seeing this in?

[kyle1974]

what was the average score of all the 6yos?

edit: didnt see that added part...

Average was probably 160-170. Maybe bigger. Place had a long history with DMP program.

[88 Bound]

what part of texas are you seeing this in?

If it's high fence, it will vary differently than the other side of it.

[jshouse]

If it's high fence, it will vary differently than the other side of it.

still hard to believe deer are topping out at 5yo, unless its alberta

[webb09]

I’ve been on my low fence lease for 13 years and we nor any of the adjoining pastures have ever shot spikes. The quality of bucks the ranch produces speaks for itself.


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[webb09]

Our deer pop at 6 or 7. We wait till 7


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[Bear82]

More than likely if you have spikes, your deer don't have enough food. I grew up hunting central Texas and every 1.5 yo deer was a spike. First year we started feeding protein and spikes disappeared. I also know a MLD biologist said to shoot every spike and a few years later there were only 10 deer on 1000 acres.

[Jason Fry]

In three years, we've seen a dozen spikes. Browse and forage are pretty good, and there's no browse line. Plenty of food.

[jshouse]

In three years, we've seen a dozen spikes. Browse and forage are pretty good, and there's no browse line. Plenty of food.

yeah we have plenty of food, feeders going, food plots, and still see a handful every year even on our small acreage.

[RJH1]

what part of texas are you seeing this in?

Abilene area

[Javelin]

Here's what all this stuff really boils down to, if you're not killing spikes, you're not even beginning to try to alter genetics. If you're not trying to alter genetics, then you shouldn't be worried with things like protein feed because that makes a minuscule amount of difference on antlers compared to genetics. In fact genetics is the only real determining Factor in antler growth. So if you're not trying to alter genetics the next best thing you can do is allow for age, everything I've ever seen and every deer breeder I've ever talked to says that deer have the best antlers between 4 and 1/2 and 5 1/2. So if you're looking to kill the best deer that your place can make naturally, just shoot the bucks at four and a half or five and a half, because letting them go any longer their antler mass will reduce and since we are throwing genetics out the window, hoping they'll breed is kind of nonsensical as well.

The other option is go with if it's brown it's down which has the exact same effect on your deer herd as not shooting spikes, because overall you're not affecting the genetics of the deer anymore than if you wait to kill the deer at four and a half or five and a half.

In reality none of it much matters unless you're control huge swaths of land, or are within a hi fence. Because unless you're controlling genetics you're really not doing anything to really affect the deer herd.

So in total what I would do in a low fence situation is shoot spikes, because they'll probably never be as good as their non Spike counterpart, and I would wait on everything else I saw to get to be four and a half or five and a half if I was interested in shooting the biggest deer my place could make naturally. Or if I didn't have a large amount of land and depending on what the neighbors were doing, I would go with its brown it's down because that's probably all you're going to see. Have a good one

you can not alter genetics by killing deer. This is a fact that has been proven time and again. I am talking about in wild populations

[RJH1]

you can not alter genetics by killing deer. This is a fact that has been proven time and again. I am talking about in wild populations

Maybe it was muddled in my post, but yeah pretty much agree with that

[Johnwayn34]

I only shoot 3.5 year old spikes.

^^^This…LOL!!!^^^

[cpatterson]

Here's what all this stuff really boils down to, if you're not killing spikes, you're not even beginning to try to alter genetics. If you're not trying to alter genetics, then you shouldn't be worried with things like protein feed because that makes a minuscule amount of difference on antlers compared to genetics. In fact genetics is the only real determining Factor in antler growth. So if you're not trying to alter genetics the next best thing you can do is allow for age, everything I've ever seen and every deer breeder I've ever talked to says that deer have the best antlers between 4 and 1/2 and 5 1/2. So if you're looking to kill the best deer that your place can make naturally, just shoot the bucks at four and a half or five and a half, because letting them go any longer their antler mass will reduce and since we are throwing genetics out the window, hoping they'll breed is kind of nonsensical as well.

The other option is go with if it's brown it's down which has the exact same effect on your deer herd as not shooting spikes, because overall you're not affecting the genetics of the deer anymore than if you wait to kill the deer at four and a half or five and a half.

In reality none of it much matters unless you're control huge swaths of land, or are within a hi fence. Because unless you're controlling genetics you're really not doing anything to really affect the deer herd.

So in total what I would do in a low fence situation is shoot spikes, because they'll probably never be as good as their non Spike counterpart, and I would wait on everything else I saw to get to be four and a half or five and a half if I was interested in shooting the biggest deer my place could make naturally. Or if I didn't have a large amount of land and depending on what the neighbors were doing, I would go with its brown it's down because that's probably all you're going to see. Have a good one

I was under the impression that current research shows that in fact, nutrition is the number one factor in antler growth and development far and above genetics. Making everything said here incorrect.


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