Electric blackout - Is it all over Texas?

[SB09]

Could be raining...

It will be later for a lot of us. Frozen rain!


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[sqiggy]

Neighbor just sent me this. Anybody else seen this?

[TX_H-F]

Neighbor just sent me this. Anybody else seen this?

[ATTACH]1040851[/ATTACH]

Thats got to be the worst thing Ive ever heard. If the state goes down we are all in big big trouble. I dont know how likely this really is?

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[mmlreiner]

Oh lord that would be awful.


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[SB09]

Neighbor just sent me this. Anybody else seen this?

[ATTACH]1040851[/ATTACH]

I think right now we are doing a pretty good job at managing and keeping the margin where it’s critical but not to where the grid will fall.

The only thing that would hurt us bad is if they lose more generators. So, as long as the capacity doesn’t drop drastically I think everything is fine.


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[texasair]

Somebody needs to get on the commercial and government users.

I have seen vacant shopping centers, vacant downtown office buildings,
vacant park and ride lots, vacant manufacturing plants vacant restaurants all lit up like a Christmas tree.

[Tx.Fisher]

South side of Richland Chambers. Ours has been 2 hours off and two hours on today. Last Wednesday afternoon I stopped by harbor freight and bought the floor model of the 4000 Predator for $250. Glad I did cause we’ve been using it a lot the last 24 hours. I can look across the lake see lights on when ours is off, and vice versa.

[Smeone]

I wanted a different thread so as to not derail the other.

Austin and all areas I know of (Leander, San Saba etc) Are having blackouts. A
As far as I know Austin doesn't use wind turbine power at all. And why is every single area having blackouts?

Does this mean every time the temp gets under 25 degrees we will have blackouts from now on all across the State?

Why didn't we have blackouts a few weeks back when it snowed a foot deep in San Saba? Just 10 degrees colder and they can't keep up with demand? If that's the only excuse that should scare the crap out of everyone.

there is a significant difference between 25 degrees and near zero in the entire state almost to the valley so no that is not what this means

there is also a major difference between a day or two of 15 degrees or a little lower and 4 days of near zero for part of the day and 15 or so for the rest of it

We’ve had no blackouts where I am just outside of lubbock. Some of the largest wind turbine fields are as close as 25 mins to 1:15 away from me. Ironic isn’t it....

Lubbock is not on ERCOT......although they will be starting in June of this year

currently Lubbock and north to Amarillo are on the SPP the Southwest Power Poll

the SPP feeds 14 states and the reason that Lubbock is switching off of it is because Xcel was no longer interested in supplying wholesale residential power to the area (though that has since changed with a new contract for part of the Lubbock area needs)

there have been some blackouts in SPP areas and there could still be more, but they were for a shorter period of time and did not last past this morning

all of the wind turbines around Lubbock and all the way to Amarillo do not feed into the SWPP they have built large transmission lines (under Rick Perry) to carry that wind power to the ERCOT market where it commands a higher price so it does not matter if they are turning or not for Lubbock

areas north of Lubbock and some west of Lubbock will stay in the SPP

Pardon me, but I am not understanding what you are saying here. Can you perhaps elaborate or explain this so a dummy like me can understand how frozen gas drilling equuipment has any effect on the current supply of natural gas?

Natural gas is not produced and flowing into a gas pipeline until AFTER the well is drilled and hooked up to a gathering system and pipeline. The current supply of gas is not affected by frozen drilling equipment. This makes no sense.

there were a number of issues

1. actual wellheads froze and prevented the gas from leaving the well and into the small collector pipelines this is happening all over the major gas producing areas

2. four of the facilities in the Permian Basin that collect gas. clean it up, and send it to what is known as WaHa (a major pipeline terminal out of the Permian Basin) had issues and were down for periods of time thus gas was not getting sent to the other major Texas and USA terminals

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/power-bills-moon-chaos-shock-electricity-prices-across-us-explode

One day later that's exactly what happened because as frigid temperatures caused equipment failures, temporarily shutdowns and flaring in at least four nat gas processing plants ...

Targa Resources’ Benedum Gas Plant in Upton County affected for 7 hours overnight, co. said in a filing

Occidental Petroleum’s Bennett Ranch Unit RCF Facility in Yoakum County, which is used for EOR, was affected for 9 hours Thursday: filing

DCP Midstream’s Goldsmith Gas Plant in Ector County affected for 1 hour Thursday: filing

Occidental’s nearby gas plant, another EOR facility, was affected by DCP Midstream incident: filing

all of this lead to lower amounts of natural gas in the pipelines for periods of time and you simply cannot make that up....X amount of gas can flow at max capacity in Y period of time and if you do not get X amount flowed in Y period of time then you are simply short on gas for a period of time

you can always flow less, but you cannot flow more than the max capacity.....so when you need max capacity and you do not get it someone goes short

Thanks for that. Quick question. How is the power from different types of generators, wind, solar, fossil fuels separated once it hits the grid?


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it isn't.....that is the big joke on stupid people that claim to be on "100% green power"

all of the power goes on the grid and then it is used by whoever and it comes from WHEREVER that is on that grid.....the USA having 3 major grids.....the Western Interconnect, the Eastern Interconnect, and the Texas Interconnect

the western and eastern are further broken down into smaller parts, Texas is not.....it is all ERCOT with only a portion of the panhandle (Lubbock north), east Texas, and far west Texas not on ERCOT

So I get that processing plant freezings are the constraint. Why does this not happen in the NE USA with their temperatures routinely getting colder than this? Who is to blame for lack of capacity and/or lack of planning? Who do we fire for not planning for this? Pathetic that Texas produces more energy than almost any other Country and we can't power ourselves.


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most of the north eastern USA with the exception of areas of PA and Ohio do not "process" natural gas they get it in a pipeline already processed

areas of PA and Ohio and small parts of other states will have some processing and it may well be build for extreme cold......surely in North Dakota it is built different than Texas, but generally in the USA (and most other places in the world) you do not always build infrastructure to stand up to once every 40 year events...sometimes even if you do there are still issues....cold tends to cause thing to break just like extreme head does as well

if you want to see what the major issue is look here

https://easttexasradio.com/commercial-liability-partners-purchases-two-retired-coal-fired-power-plants-in-northeast-texas-ja/

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2017/10/09/texas-monticello-power-plant-closes-signaling-the-undeniable-shift-to-natural-gas-and-renewable-energy/

so Monticello contributed power for 940,000 homes.....the one in Fairfield who knows

https://www.power-eng.com/coal/idled-texas-coal-fired-plant-may-restart-as-regulators-anticipate-record-peaks-in-2020-and-2021-summers/#gref

^^^^here is a plant that is mothballed and COULD be opened up for this summer.....but it is "evil coal"

here is an east Texas coal plant that will go offline soon....FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS VVVVVVV

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Another-coal-plant-to-close-in-Texas-15708417.php

a second plant will switch to natural gas in that same story

we all love clean air I am sure, but coal can be clean if the investment is made, but the federal government does not want that investment made instead they give tax credits to "green"

sure Texas (especially Texas) can build more natural gas infrastructure and make it work and build it up for a once every 40 year freeze event.....but here is the thing with coal vs natural gas

with coal you CAN STORE lots of fuel on site and you can do it for relatively CHEAP.....with natural gas it is extremely dangerous and expensive to store large amounts of it on site at a power plant so you rely on "just in time supplies" and if something happens to that many of your plants have issues if they are on the same hub and you can not get flow from elsewhere

with coal you rely on trains and you can pile that crap up in a BIG BIG BIG pile and then you can use conveyers and loaders to feed the plant and if those god down well it is just that plant and they are easier to fix or cheaper to have a back up or haul in a new one

we have cut the sources to two very unreliable (wind and solar) and to one that people are already against as well natural gas where people have a tantrum if a pipeline comes through their area (especially outside of Texas and now in some areas of Texas) and we have just trashed the most reliable source there was for the longest time.....coal

yes there is nuclear, but no new ones are coming to save us at least not in the USA and there is hydro, but Texas is limited in that because of the elevation change needed and because areas with elevation changes are generally much drier

do that leaves natural gas to carry the load and when that has an issue....well there are major issues

[bdog14]

Electric blackout - Is it all over Texas?

there is a significant difference between 25 degrees and near zero in the entire state almost to the valley so no that is not what this means

there is also a major difference between a day or two of 15 degrees or a little lower and 4 days of near zero for part of the day and 15 or so for the rest of it



Lubbock is not on ERCOT......although they will be starting in June of this year

currently Lubbock and north to Amarillo are on the SPP the Southwest Power Poll

the SPP feeds 14 states and the reason that Lubbock is switching off of it is because Xcel was no longer interested in supplying wholesale residential power to the area (though that has since changed with a new contract for part of the Lubbock area needs)

there have been some blackouts in SPP areas and there could still be more, but they were for a shorter period of time and did not last past this morning

all of the wind turbines around Lubbock and all the way to Amarillo do not feed into the SWPP they have built large transmission lines (under Rick Perry) to carry that wind power to the ERCOT market where it commands a higher price so it does not matter if they are turning or not for Lubbock

areas north of Lubbock and some west of Lubbock will stay in the SPP



there were a number of issues

1. actual wellheads froze and prevented the gas from leaving the well and into the small collector pipelines this is happening all over the major gas producing areas

2. four of the facilities in the Permian Basin that collect gas. clean it up, and send it to what is known as WaHa (a major pipeline terminal out of the Permian Basin) had issues and were down for periods of time thus gas was not getting sent to the other major Texas and USA terminals

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/power-bills-moon-chaos-shock-electricity-prices-across-us-explode

One day later that's exactly what happened because as frigid temperatures caused equipment failures, temporarily shutdowns and flaring in at least four nat gas processing plants ...

Targa Resources’ Benedum Gas Plant in Upton County affected for 7 hours overnight, co. said in a filing

Occidental Petroleum’s Bennett Ranch Unit RCF Facility in Yoakum County, which is used for EOR, was affected for 9 hours Thursday: filing

DCP Midstream’s Goldsmith Gas Plant in Ector County affected for 1 hour Thursday: filing

Occidental’s nearby gas plant, another EOR facility, was affected by DCP Midstream incident: filing

all of this lead to lower amounts of natural gas in the pipelines for periods of time and you simply cannot make that up....X amount of gas can flow at max capacity in Y period of time and if you do not get X amount flowed in Y period of time then you are simply short on gas for a period of time

you can always flow less, but you cannot flow more than the max capacity.....so when you need max capacity and you do not get it someone goes short





it isn't.....that is the big joke on stupid people that claim to be on "100% green power"

all of the power goes on the grid and then it is used by whoever and it comes from WHEREVER that is on that grid.....the USA having 3 major grids.....the Western Interconnect, the Eastern Interconnect, and the Texas Interconnect

the western and eastern are further broken down into smaller parts, Texas is not.....it is all ERCOT with only a portion of the panhandle (Lubbock north), east Texas, and far west Texas not on ERCOT



most of the north eastern USA with the exception of areas of PA and Ohio do not "process" natural gas they get it in a pipeline already processed

areas of PA and Ohio and small parts of other states will have some processing and it may well be build for extreme cold......surely in North Dakota it is built different than Texas, but generally in the USA (and most other places in the world) you do not always build infrastructure to stand up to once every 40 year events...sometimes even if you do there are still issues....cold tends to cause thing to break just like extreme head does as well

if you want to see what the major issue is look here

https://easttexasradio.com/commercial-liability-partners-purchases-two-retired-coal-fired-power-plants-in-northeast-texas-ja/

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2017/10/09/texas-monticello-power-plant-closes-signaling-the-undeniable-shift-to-natural-gas-and-renewable-energy/

so Monticello contributed power for 940,000 homes.....the one in Fairfield who knows

https://www.power-eng.com/coal/idled-texas-coal-fired-plant-may-restart-as-regulators-anticipate-record-peaks-in-2020-and-2021-summers/#gref

^^^^here is a plant that is mothballed and COULD be opened up for this summer.....but it is "evil coal"

here is an east Texas coal plant that will go offline soon....FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS VVVVVVV

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Another-coal-plant-to-close-in-Texas-15708417.php

a second plant will switch to natural gas in that same story

we all love clean air I am sure, but coal can be clean if the investment is made, but the federal government does not want that investment made instead they give tax credits to "green"

sure Texas (especially Texas) can build more natural gas infrastructure and make it work and build it up for a once every 40 year freeze event.....but here is the thing with coal vs natural gas

with coal you CAN STORE lots of fuel on site and you can do it for relatively CHEAP.....with natural gas it is extremely dangerous and expensive to store large amounts of it on site at a power plant so you rely on "just in time supplies" and if something happens to that many of your plants have issues if they are on the same hub and you can not get flow from elsewhere

with coal you rely on trains and you can pile that crap up in a BIG BIG BIG pile and then you can use conveyers and loaders to feed the plant and if those god down well it is just that plant and they are easier to fix or cheaper to have a back up or haul in a new one

we have cut the sources to two very unreliable (wind and solar) and to one that people are already against as well natural gas where people have a tantrum if a pipeline comes through their area (especially outside of Texas and now in some areas of Texas) and we have just trashed the most reliable source there was for the longest time.....coal

yes there is nuclear, but no new ones are coming to save us at least not in the USA and there is hydro, but Texas is limited in that because of the elevation change needed and because areas with elevation changes are generally much drier

do that leaves natural gas to carry the load and when that has an issue....well there are major issues

Thanks for that. If nat gas supply is the main issue, why haven’t nat gas prices rocketed higher than they were last year? I want to say the 2019/2020 high was $4.5 per MCF and we are sitting at roughly $3 now. Maybe ERCOT isn’t paying enough and there needs to be some competition there? Also, ERCOT needs to have production standards(wellhead insulation, heaters, etc) and pay premiums for those who meet those. Or storage? Lng? I know very little about this, but it just seems common sense...This can’t happen again!


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[Yak’n Aggie]

48 hours no power in Godley.

[Dale Moser]

there is a significant difference between 25 degrees and near zero in the entire state almost to the valley so no that is not what this means

there is also a major difference between a day or two of 15 degrees or a little lower and 4 days of near zero for part of the day and 15 or so for the rest of it



Lubbock is not on ERCOT......although they will be starting in June of this year

currently Lubbock and north to Amarillo are on the SPP the Southwest Power Poll

the SPP feeds 14 states and the reason that Lubbock is switching off of it is because Xcel was no longer interested in supplying wholesale residential power to the area (though that has since changed with a new contract for part of the Lubbock area needs)

there have been some blackouts in SPP areas and there could still be more, but they were for a shorter period of time and did not last past this morning

all of the wind turbines around Lubbock and all the way to Amarillo do not feed into the SWPP they have built large transmission lines (under Rick Perry) to carry that wind power to the ERCOT market where it commands a higher price so it does not matter if they are turning or not for Lubbock

areas north of Lubbock and some west of Lubbock will stay in the SPP



there were a number of issues

1. actual wellheads froze and prevented the gas from leaving the well and into the small collector pipelines this is happening all over the major gas producing areas

2. four of the facilities in the Permian Basin that collect gas. clean it up, and send it to what is known as WaHa (a major pipeline terminal out of the Permian Basin) had issues and were down for periods of time thus gas was not getting sent to the other major Texas and USA terminals

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/power-bills-moon-chaos-shock-electricity-prices-across-us-explode

One day later that's exactly what happened because as frigid temperatures caused equipment failures, temporarily shutdowns and flaring in at least four nat gas processing plants ...

Targa Resources’ Benedum Gas Plant in Upton County affected for 7 hours overnight, co. said in a filing

Occidental Petroleum’s Bennett Ranch Unit RCF Facility in Yoakum County, which is used for EOR, was affected for 9 hours Thursday: filing

DCP Midstream’s Goldsmith Gas Plant in Ector County affected for 1 hour Thursday: filing

Occidental’s nearby gas plant, another EOR facility, was affected by DCP Midstream incident: filing

all of this lead to lower amounts of natural gas in the pipelines for periods of time and you simply cannot make that up....X amount of gas can flow at max capacity in Y period of time and if you do not get X amount flowed in Y period of time then you are simply short on gas for a period of time

you can always flow less, but you cannot flow more than the max capacity.....so when you need max capacity and you do not get it someone goes short





it isn't.....that is the big joke on stupid people that claim to be on "100% green power"

all of the power goes on the grid and then it is used by whoever and it comes from WHEREVER that is on that grid.....the USA having 3 major grids.....the Western Interconnect, the Eastern Interconnect, and the Texas Interconnect

the western and eastern are further broken down into smaller parts, Texas is not.....it is all ERCOT with only a portion of the panhandle (Lubbock north), east Texas, and far west Texas not on ERCOT



most of the north eastern USA with the exception of areas of PA and Ohio do not "process" natural gas they get it in a pipeline already processed

areas of PA and Ohio and small parts of other states will have some processing and it may well be build for extreme cold......surely in North Dakota it is built different than Texas, but generally in the USA (and most other places in the world) you do not always build infrastructure to stand up to once every 40 year events...sometimes even if you do there are still issues....cold tends to cause thing to break just like extreme head does as well

if you want to see what the major issue is look here

https://easttexasradio.com/commercial-liability-partners-purchases-two-retired-coal-fired-power-plants-in-northeast-texas-ja/

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2017/10/09/texas-monticello-power-plant-closes-signaling-the-undeniable-shift-to-natural-gas-and-renewable-energy/

so Monticello contributed power for 940,000 homes.....the one in Fairfield who knows

https://www.power-eng.com/coal/idled-texas-coal-fired-plant-may-restart-as-regulators-anticipate-record-peaks-in-2020-and-2021-summers/#gref

^^^^here is a plant that is mothballed and COULD be opened up for this summer.....but it is "evil coal"

here is an east Texas coal plant that will go offline soon....FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS VVVVVVV

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Another-coal-plant-to-close-in-Texas-15708417.php

a second plant will switch to natural gas in that same story

we all love clean air I am sure, but coal can be clean if the investment is made, but the federal government does not want that investment made instead they give tax credits to "green"

sure Texas (especially Texas) can build more natural gas infrastructure and make it work and build it up for a once every 40 year freeze event.....but here is the thing with coal vs natural gas

with coal you CAN STORE lots of fuel on site and you can do it for relatively CHEAP.....with natural gas it is extremely dangerous and expensive to store large amounts of it on site at a power plant so you rely on "just in time supplies" and if something happens to that many of your plants have issues if they are on the same hub and you can not get flow from elsewhere

with coal you rely on trains and you can pile that crap up in a BIG BIG BIG pile and then you can use conveyers and loaders to feed the plant and if those god down well it is just that plant and they are easier to fix or cheaper to have a back up or haul in a new one

we have cut the sources to two very unreliable (wind and solar) and to one that people are already against as well natural gas where people have a tantrum if a pipeline comes through their area (especially outside of Texas and now in some areas of Texas) and we have just trashed the most reliable source there was for the longest time.....coal

yes there is nuclear, but no new ones are coming to save us at least not in the USA and there is hydro, but Texas is limited in that because of the elevation change needed and because areas with elevation changes are generally much drier

do that leaves natural gas to carry the load and when that has an issue....well there are major issues

There is a great big **** heap of truth! And where does the fault lie??? LIBERAL EFFING IDIOTS!

Their reps will be along shortly with hollow, hair brained, unrealistic, replies..as per their usual.


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[Smeone]

Thanks for that. If nat gas supply is the main issue, why haven’t nat gas prices rocketed higher than they were last year? I want to say the 2019/2020 high was $4.5 per MCF and we are sitting at roughly $3 now. Maybe ERCOT isn’t paying enough and there needs to be some competition there? Also, ERCOT needs to have production standards(wellhead insulation, heaters, etc) and pay premiums for those who meet those. Or storage? Lng? I know very little about this, but it just seems common sense...This can’t happen again!


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natural gas prices are up massively

https://www.naturalgasintel.com/cash-prices-soar-amid-natural-gas-shortage-energy-crisis/

I understand what you are asking, but you are asking that question under the false belief that the US futures market is actually representative of real world supply and demand for underlying products.....sometimes it is....but often times it is nowhere close to the real world....like when "oil futures" were "negative" several months back

the more a commodity is traded globally and the more "fungible" it is often times the less the commodities market represents reality especially with short term event....all the more so when the ability to actually take delivery of the physical product or the NEED to take delivery of the physical product is limited to those with the infrastructure to do so

also ERCOT does not regulate the natural gas producers in Texas or the pipeline companies in Texas the Railroad Commission does that

https://www.rrc.state.tx.us/

and as for LNG storage it is extremely expensive, dangerous, and takes Massive energy to turn natural gas to liquids look at the Cheniere plants they were massively expensive to build and it takes energy to compress and to decompress the gas and look at the shipping and boating and building restrictions around those plants especially when a ship is n dock....and to store LNG it would be like a ship is in dock all the time

it would cost more than a power plant to build a LNG storage facility next to a power plant and even then it will only hold a small amount of product 9about a ships worth) with all the security and land use restrictions associated with that

but there is something you can store a lot of right at a power plant that is not going to blow up if someone lights a match and that will still be there if a pipeline goes down....it is called COAL

[DUKFVR]

but there is something you can store a lot of right at a power plant that is not going to blow up if someone lights a match and that will still be there if a pipeline goes down....it is called COAL

Thanks for all your info!
This last couple of lines says it all! Time to get the coal rollin again & tell the greenies where to go. They can get on a grid supplied wind & solar. Put me on the coal roller & stoke it full!

[Goldeneagle]

Power has been out since Monday morning at work. The time off is nice, but these kids are driving me nuts!!!!!

[KyleW]

areas north of Lubbock and some west of Lubbock will stay in the SPP

Do you happen to know how far west will stay on SPP? Is it only LP&L territory that is going to ERCOT? I tried to find a map the other day out of curiosity, but didn't find anything.