East Tx Deer Numbers Thread

[Anvilheadtexas]

I understand deer travel and it is tough to get a good estimate as to population on a smaller tract of property, or any property for that fact.

There are different ways to figure out carrying capacity of your property though, and how it is being utilized, thus another way of giving you an estimate of your population.

If you know what you working with as to carrying capacity you can start hypothesizing what your harvest rate should be.

Say on 150 acres, your capacity is 25 acres per deer. That means your property should yield enough for 6 deer. By taking a buck and does every year, that could or could not be a good practice depending on your management goals.

On the said property, say you find out your carrying capacity is 50 acres per deer, I could think one buck and one doe would be excessive and could lead to a long term population reduction.

Throw in folks hammering on more does now days, the increase in the hog population (which could effectively take some of that carrying capacity away and/or run off deer), predators, neighbor or you shooting more deer that their/your property can handle, more people hunting smaller tracts, or all of the above combined.

Without all this information, everything is subjective, and there is really no way to know what is going on.

Agree. And I did not want to make this into a “my neighbor is killing all the deer” thread, but I do have one neighbor (great guy) who owns 13 acres and by god he’s going to shoot his does every year off of it. I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about what others do on their place, but assume he just took one doe a year on 13 acres and assumed I practiced that very same deer per acre management practice on my now 205 acres... that would be 16 doe. If I shot 16 does off of my 205 acres every year (in proportion to my small tract neighbor) in three years I wouldn’t see a deer. My prediction...In a few years this is going to be a real topic and when we’re done blaming it on too many acorns in the woods the State will have to start looking at issuing doe permits per acre.

[Greenheadless]

This is what the MLD cooperatives are doing. For my property in Lavaca county.

We get a buck tag every 3-4 years and we only get one doe tag per year. We chose not to take the doe tag when we get the buck tag.

This is 30 acres with a 10 acre deer carrying capacity.

[SabineHunter]

Glad it's not just me!

Horrible year, worst in my 40 years hunting Texas. I have some acreage on Toledo Bend surrounded by the Sabine National Forrest. My wife hunts our property that has a corn feeder and I hunt the Forrest. I didn't see but one spike and three does. My wife saw the same three does, we think.
I just pulled three cards and the one on the feeder, all season, showed the three does continuously, not one buck. In my scouting, I came across just a handful of acorns and very little buck sign.
We had a tremendous amount of acorns last year and lots of deer. Late season I shot a nice 8 point that had a bad limp and a billy goat spike and I didn't hunt it much last year as we had a MLD lease north of Woodville. My wife and I never shoot does at Toledo Bend.
Hunting pressure is low as I keep a camera on the road(only two vehicles went by) to keep track of vehicles(E.Texas = theft) so my area isn't getting hammered.
The good thing is the loggers are starting this week to log our property and all the new growth should entice lots of deer back to us. We'll see. If not, since I will be retiring next year and building a house in Rockport, we'll sell it and buy some Central Texas land. I will miss hunting the woods, though.

SH

[Greenheadless]

I know this has been a population discussion, but from a trophy perspective, people don’t want to hear what restrictions/management practices are needed to kill true trophy deer.

Even the most intensively managed S Texas trophy ranch’s that are running 10-15 acres per deer, only shoot one true B&C level buck per 2,500 acres on average.

This is management of the herd, range conditions, the whole deal. I can guarantee that population is held below the carrying capacity to maximize the full potential of the herd. All the stars are aligning in these scenarios.

Now, take E Texas properties. Very few if any are intensively managed like the comparable S Texas ranches. You partner that with the same philosophy with a small property that has a carrying capacity of 20-30 acres per deer (which is what a lot of E Texas is now as a whole), and people get frustrated when you only see a few deer when you hunt. But in practice, you are doing the right thing.

In turn, you subjectively make the decision to boost the herd, by not tKing the proper amount of deer for the carrying capacity, and in turn, get an inverse reaction as to quality.

There are always outliers to what I propose above.

[Greenheadless]

This is a great thread btw. I am in no way an expert or even act like I am, just a geek on the subject. It is interesting/informational to hear the different perspectives.

In the end I tend to rely on the experts, but, will question their advice/judgement. Outside thought is never a bad thing.

[RockTippedStick]

I hunt Polk County. I have about 275 acres total between family and a lease that connect. I border a large timber lease with about 1 hunter per 100 acres. My numbers have actually been up but I have adapted and changed my setups to cause that. I believe actual total population in the area is way down.

The hunt club use to sound like a duck club opening weekend. Now I may hear 8-10 shots the whole weekend. I have set up 4 sanctuaries on my place. All about 40-50 acres. I only access from the outside with a wind going out of the place when I hunt. I had a pretty good ratio of bucks to doe this season but almost all the bucks were young. I have not shot a doe on the place in about 4 years. I did have 2 other guys hunting on the place a few years back and you could see the pressure would push the deer off. They found a nice S TX deer/exotic lease and I just took over the whole thing myself. I used to be happy seeing 4 or 5 deer a hunt. I saw 14 deer one sit this year. Fawn numbers this year were way down. I will get pics on one plot of 10-12 deer at a time. And I would say I have 3 doe families living on the place.

Part of the place is pine plantation, some new growth about 3 years old, a good creek with a lot of white oaks, some pasture and I put in a few small plots.

So for me, I would say adapting to the conditions and applying a lot less pressure has grown the number of deer on my small place. But my neighbors, by the sound of it are seeing less. So much so that I think they have dropped the number of hunters they run on it. I saw way less traffic going in and out of there this season.

[RockTippedStick]

I also hunt with my Dad in Tyler and Liberty counties. We have never had many deer at the place in Tyler county as it is pretty much just pine plantation with just as much thick as can be yaupon. Like a rabbit would have a hard time getting through it but the deer do hit the feeders pretty good there.

Liberty county we hardly saw any deer this year. We are on the river bottom. And the floods seem to have drowned or pushed out almost all the deer the last couple of seasons. And you might see one fawn for every 5 does. I will say that they did shoot quite a few deer last year.

[Prairieboy]

We hunt a small place in Houston county near Pennington and I would say the number of deer I've seen (in person & via trail cam) the past couple of years have been lower than the years 3-4 years previous. We feed year around and plant some small food plots. Spring- thru late summer I had pics of 2 different groups of bucks on the trails and at feeders daily but very few does and most of those were only coming to the feeders at night and not very regularly. I easily saw 3 times more bucks than does during the early part of this year. Around mid September all of the bucks started moving mainly late evening or early morning and by October had gone completely nocturnal. We have only taken 1 mature doe in the last 4 years and one yearling doe this year that had a bum leg. I have spoken to the neighbors on property to the east and west of ours and they had basically the same story with a lot of bucks early on, very few does and most all nocturnal after mid September. I can say that we've seen at least triple the hogs the last 2 1/2 years, some Sounders of 25+ and I've also noticed a rise in predators that have been seen on cams. So with the large hog population, abundant browse and piles of acorns under every oak tree my numbers or at least my visual numbers seem down. Around early December I started seeing a few more does moving around and they have been at the feeders regularly since. I don't know exactly what the deal is or was but I know it was a pretty unproductive year on our lease and surrounding property this season.

[Etxbuckman]

I think, too, that all the timber cutting displaces a lot of deer. On our lease and the leases directly bordering ours there’s been cutting going on for 10 years straight. I know it creates browse that the deer like but it also seems to keep them pushed around and out to a degree as well.

[Razrbk89]

All the hogs have to make a difference. I’m not sold on predators making a huge difference on a balanced herd, but I understand how they can hurt a smaller herd. I don’t take any active steps to remove predators, and our fawn recruitment is solid, year after year.

I’m not sure what the habitat difference is between most of East Texas and zone 12 in southern Arkansas (other than less people), which is the pine woods/timber company lease zone. You can shoot up to six does in zone 12 with a rifle because the deer got out of control in many areas.

[SabineHunter]

I forgot to add that not only was the deer sightings dismal, but the hogs disappeared as well. For the entire year, only one boar hog was filmed whereas in the past we would see numerous sounders on the cameras. So, hogs were not the reason for lack of deer. Com'on loggers.

[Bayouboy]

Can't see what isn't there.

[TX_Hoghunter]

I hunt in Van Zandt county. Small places but surrounded by family land so not too bad. The number were pretty good. I was actually pleasantly surprised. I never had a sit where I did not see at least something. The best morning I saw 10 or so and shot the one below. They did expand the doe season around here so I guess we will see if that has an affect. I have not shot any does in this county although I do at the lease. I guess it is because when I was a kid we just did not have any deer around here.





-john

[Anvilheadtexas]

What is interesting are some of the responses regarding seeing only young bucks. This was definately the case for me. A spike here, a nubbing buck there. Very few does. Anyone else in East Tx with observations?

[Tshelly]

What is interesting are some of the responses regarding seeing only young bucks. This was definately the case for me. A spike here, a nubbing buck there. Very few does. Anyone else in East Tx with observations?

The low doe count early in season happens every year. Does movement from late October til thanksgiving can slow to a crawl because they are literally being harassed by every buck at all hours of the day. Holding tight to very thick cover and not much daylight movement is common yearly. Acorn heavy years and weather can make November very tough some years. Especially if your property is small, hogs and one of any other dozen factors.

Seeing lots of small bucks early is again a product of the rut in my opinion.

I do agree with the doe harvest increase though. Just answering your last question.




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