Discussion on Lead in Meat

[BuckSmasher]

That is consistent with the podcast info I referenced on page one. I agree that CA is full of wackadoodles, but there's no arguing that the Condors are getting lead poisoning from bullet fragments in gut piles.

Thank you man. Still need to look up that podcast. I am firmly committed to going monolithic this year. I shoot tons of pigs every year so I should get an idea of how they perform, if it is atrocious I will go back to bonded lead cores. Not gonna shoot another non bonded lead core at anything other than paper.

[BuckSmasher]

I've been shooting solid copper barnes in my 280ai for a long time & killed many many whitetail with them over the years...one thing I would recommend is trying the lighter available bullet first vs the traditional weight the gun currently likes. My findings is the longer bullet for same weight increases the bearing surface so much that it affects accuracy. Where most 140's shoot well in this gun, it hated the barnes. Once I went to 120's, she came together & I gained 200+fps.

Pros / Cons on the tsx...pros is it kills very well & never had a deer go more than 25 yards after a shot through the boiler room. Cons are blood trails can be fantastic or very minimal in those 25 yards. Likely not an issue for most the brush out there you guys hunt. It just gets frustrating finding them in the thick nasty bunch prickers when they do run a little. I would say good vs bad trails are 50/50 & seems if you hit bone on the entrance, the solids open up immediately & perform better vs hitting soft entrance. Just a theory anyway & looking at gutted deer.

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Having said all that, I'm not worried about the lead issue & guess I'll be spitting shot out of doves & whitewing for the rest of my days.

280ai is moving pretty fast. I am thinking about going for a shoulder shot with the monlithics to break bone and prevent run offs, is that necessary do you think?

[Bayouboy]

I sure have eaten a lot of squirrels, rabbits, and ducks "when it was legal to do so" shot with lead over the years.

[RifleBowPistol]

I don't worry about lead in game animals. I used to eat a lot of birds and rabbits shot with bird shot, never had any problems, other than the pain of biting down on a piece of lead shot. I have also eaten a lot of deer meat, from deer that were shot with rifles or pistols. Never found any lead in any of that meat, but would not worry if I did. I have butchered all of my deer for years now, I remove any meat that has clotted blood in it. I cut out the area, that has clotted blood. Mainly for the taste, not the possibility there might be lead fragments in it. For many years, we did have multiple different deer processors, process our deer. You can bet not all of them cut out the areas around the wound channels, much less looked for bullet fragments. But then we never found any bullet fragments in any meat we got back from a processor either.
If a bullet goes through some muscle tissue, you will have clotted blood where the wound channel is. So if you are observant you should be able to tell what pieces of muscle might have bullet fragments in them. You should also know what area of the deer was shot and how the bullet traveled through the deer. So you should know where there might be bullet fragments.
I never ever worry about anything that Californians cook up as a good idea to do, never follow the lead of Californians. Usually they go the exact wrong direction to go, no matter what it is.
Also on the subject of lead, I got shot with a shotgun many years ago, when I was a kid, I know I still have lead shot in my left side, it was confirmed when I had a dirt bike accident and shatter my left knee and broke some ribs. Two hospitals did a complete body ct scan and X-rayed me head to toe, they confirmed I still had lead shot in the left side of my body. Some people where asking about some spots in the X-rays on my left side, I told them it was most likely the pellets from when I was shot with a shotgun. The doctors said, most likely from what they saw, that's what was showing up in the X-rays. It was about 38 years ago that I got shot, with a 12 ga., with bird shot. That I know of, it has not caused any problems.
My family grew up eating gun shot deer, that was what we lived off of for many years. My whole family hunted, both parents, both sisters, my brother and myself. Often we hunted in four buck counties. I know many years we killed around 12 deer per season, that's what we lived off of throughout the year. Even after I was not living with my parents, I was still eating lots of deer. I am 50 years old, still have venison in the freezer, my wife and I eat quite a bit of venison. Right now, since it's been two years, since I went hunting and killed a deer, we are down to only venison pan sausage, but my wife cooks that regularly.
If lead bullets were any form of a problem, for humans to eat, if there was much of a chance of eating lead fragments and the lead would cause the person who ate the lead fragments, health issues. I am the one who should have all types of problems related to eating lead bullet fragments. I have no signs, that I know of, that could be related to lead poisoning.

[Artos]

280ai is moving pretty fast. I am thinking about going for a shoulder shot with the monlithics to break bone and prevent run offs, is that necessary do you think?

I don’t think it’s possible to prevent run offs regardless of caliber or projectile coming out of our rifles...I’ve shot them in the boiler from a 220 Swift & a 7mm lazzeroni with a 52gr & a 120gr both going 4000fps & everything south of there.

The tsx is a great bullet to consider but I would shoot whichever projectile is most accurate & check the results.

[Phillip Fields]

I have to wonder if most of the people posting here have even bothered to read the article in the link posted by the OP. The article made some very good points. It was written by people from Idaho and Washington, several of whom are affiliated with Boise State University or Washington State University. The deer studied were shot in Wyoming. No Californians were involved.

This quote is from the report.

"Factors that may influence dietary lead exposure from spent lead bullets include the frequency and amount of venison consumption, degree of bullet fragmentation, anatomical path of the bullet, the care with which meat surrounding the bullet wound is removed, and any acidic treatments of the meat that would dissolve lead, i.e., coating the hanging carcass with vinegar or the use of acidic marinades in cooking".

I normally shoot my deer though the lungs, so most of the fragmentation would be contained within the thoracic cavity. I also like bonded core bullets which helps cut down on fragmentation. I am also particular about trimming out any bloodshot meat around the bullet wound. Based on this I really don't see much risk in continuing to eat deer killed with lead core bullets.

[BuckSmasher]

I don’t think it’s possible to prevent run offs regardless of caliber or projectile coming out of our rifles...

I know.... but I love DRT so much. My brother laughs at me for continuing to search for the unicorn DRT bullet/cartridge combo.


It is great when it happens though!

[BuckSmasher]

I have to wonder if most of the people posting here have even bothered to read the article in the link posted by the OP. The article made some very good points. It was written by people from Idaho and Washington, several of whom are affiliated with Boise State University or Washington State University. The deer studied were shot in Wyoming. No Californians were involved.

This quote is from the report.

"Factors that may influence dietary lead exposure from spent lead bullets include the frequency and amount of venison consumption, degree of bullet fragmentation, anatomical path of the bullet, the care with which meat surrounding the bullet wound is removed, and any acidic treatments of the meat that would dissolve lead, i.e., coating the hanging carcass with vinegar or the use of acidic marinades in cooking".


I normally shoot my deer though the lungs, so most of the fragmentation would be contained within the thoracic cavity. I also like bonded core bullets which helps cut down on fragmentation. I am also particular about trimming out any bloodshot meat around the bullet wound. Based on this I really don't see much risk in continuing to eat deer killed with lead core bullets.

I wish I hadn't mentioned anything about CA, but they are the ones that made the headlines for this. So it was/is relevant. Some folks posts seem to me to be arguing that lead isn't that bad for you!

I am kinda right there with you, except people are saying they have great results with monolithic bullets, so why bother. I shoot tons of pigs every year so I am gonna put the monoliths to the test and if I like them stick with them.

[hogdaddy]

My broadheads are lead free.

Carbon free?

[Jspradley]

There's lots of psychological factors at play here causing folks to refuse to accept the danger of lead toxicity.

One of my former employees was in his early 50's, very intelligent guy but was utterly CONVINCED that the danger of asbestos was made up and it didn't cause cancer in any way.

His "proof" was that he worked for a gasket company back in the days when they used asbestos for gaskets and valve stem packing and "he was just fine" after cutting them and handling it so it must be completely harmless, right?


Human psychology is very, very resistant accepting long term cumulative consequences so the attitudes towards lead aren't surprising at all, especially when you can wrap up the science behind lead toxicity as an anti hunting conspiracy (which, to be fair, there are folks who push lead bans as a means to diminish shooting and hunting) and couple the whole dang thing being a partisan loyalty test to avoid agreeing with anything that even remotely looks like California.

And who knows how much of it is just plain ol low level lead toxicity impairing cognitive function...

[Muygrande]

Good information and something I have been concerned with since I provide quite a bit of venison to family and friends. Lead poisoning can be subtle with gradual long term effects especially for children. I’m still using lead but think I’ll stay away from the more frangible bullets especially at high velocities.

People that are worried about the CA angle are not just paranoid. Gun control nazis know anything they can do to drive up the cost of ammunition is essentially back door gun control . Part of the support for banning lead has nothing to do with human health or condors.

[BuckSmasher]

People that are worried about the CA angle are not just paranoid. Gun control nazis know anything they can do to drive up the cost of ammunition is essentially back door gun control . Part of the support for banning lead has nothing to do with human health or condors.

I agree. Any increment to make access to guns/hunting harder is being pushed. Longer wait times, background checks on ammo, heavier taxes on ammo, lawsuits on mfg's to put them out of business/drive prices up etc.....

However, I still don't want to eat lead! Especially don't want to feed it to kids or pregnant moms!

Ultimately, there are things out there way worse for you long term than getting a few lead fragments in your meat, I understand that.

It would be weird for a tobacco user to go monolithic for health purposes. Kinda like a obese person only drinking diet soda, and eating ice cream. My point is, if it is easy, it is still lethal on the game animal, provides a safer table fare, why not?

[AWnNETX]

For those folks that choose not to use lead in hunting, do you use lead weights, jigheads while fishing if you do fish? I would assume I am just as likely to pick up a sliver of lead from the 100's of crappie we clean that were caught using lead jig heads as I would be to eat a dove shot with lead?
Has California done anything as far as regulating lead use in various fishing/ocean activities? I have not read up on the lead laws they have passed. I am going to read up on it some shortly.

[Traildust]

I sure have eaten a lot of squirrels, rabbits, and ducks "when it was legal to do so" shot with lead over the years.

I see you got some new sunglasses in your avatar.....

[Traildust]

I got 99 problems, but worried about consuming too much lead in wild game isn’t one of them. Beer and wild game do a body good!!

Yep!

Breathing the particulates from deleted diesels should be far more concerning!