Culling doesn’t work

[Smart]

You need to inroduce the owners and biologist to the practice of "skimming"! It's the newest thing...game changer...double down aint got nuthin on a good skimmin!

I hope skimming pushes one of ours into the 60s because so far, culling has not..

[Mexico]

You need to inroduce the owners and biologist to the practice of "skimming"! It's the newest thing...game changer...double down aint got nuthin on a good skimmin!

Lmao... you misspelled " culling " AND " Lyssy & Eckel "

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[meltingfeather]

Go Back and Read it Slowly

lol
Better things to do... onward!

[Mex. Bowhunter]

Yup I get it, you understand though that the next year you'll have a new round of "junk". Most don't.

I'm blessed to be able to help manage one of the most premier HF ranches in Mexico, the deer get all the protien they want. It's been under fence since '08... I could be off a year one way or another.

It's been intensely culled for 10 years, under DMP management ( And no outside genetics) and you still know what our number 1 issue is? CULLS! We killed 35 last year.

Those genetic traits are thousands of years old and probably not going anywhere anytime soon. Have we seen an improvement? Yes, but it's taken years and years.

Just talked to the owner and it looks like another 25 will go this year. Just goes to show even under intense HF management culling is almost futile, open range... well you get the point.

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Then Why Are You shooting Them anymore? Management Never Ends Out Side a Pen You Know That. You know I know What You Are Arguing But, You Know It Has to Be Done Also As part of Management. More Even on a HF set up

[Mexico]

Then Why Are You shooting Them anymore? Management Never Ends Out Side a Pen You Know That. You know I know What You Are Arguing But, You Know It Has to Be Done Also As part of Management. More Even on a HF set up

We're not shooting them on the LF, only HF. There genetics can obviously be manipulated to a degree.

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[Mex. Bowhunter]

We're not shooting them on the LF, only HF. There genetics can obviously be manipulated to a degree.

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Manipulated By DMP. Not the Culling but, Culling Has to be Done None the Less for Management overall.

[Mexico]

Manipulated By DMP. Not the Culling but, Culling Has to be Done None the Less for Management overall.

The point exactly, even with DMP and culling on HF there are still culls year in and year out. My point why it doesn't work on LF.

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[Mex. Bowhunter]

The point exactly, even with DMP and culling on HF there are still culls year in and year out. My point why it doesn't work on LF.

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LOL. Then I ask again. Why are you Doing It if it doesn't work

[Mexico]

LOL. Then I ask again. Why are you Doing It if it doesn't work

I'll say again culling does work on HF.

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[C.Read]

So if you shoot a deer on your neighbors property at night with a 22 caliber is it still considered skimming?
Asking for friend who hunts East Texas

There's no property lines in East Texas! Everything is fair game....


I need clarification on the proper terminology to use on an upcoming hunt. I'll be headed to Colorado on the 30th....hunting private land that is surrounded by thousands of acres of more private land. I have no idea how the neighbors manage the deer on their properties.....so I go up there, shoot what I think is a decent mulie.....am I skimming, culling or just plain killing? I got to know which word to use for my video, don't want to sound too douchy in case Bill Jordan happens upon my video on the tube of yous.

[Hoss163]

Supplement feed, keep does in check, shoot old bucks. End of story.

That’s about all you can do get bucks to 5.5 are older before you take them . The more mature bucks you have each year the more bigger bucks you are going to have each year that’s the bottom line .

[elgato]

Skimming....I think I like that term.

As some of you know I have both hi fenced pastures and LF pastures. We skim but I view it as nothing other than population control. Don't believe it has any different effect HF vs Lf at least on the size pastures we have.

We do no DMP,TTT, or anything else. Our whole strategy is based on nutrition and getting as many bucks as possible into the oldest age classes. Its a numbers game . And every year we have an old deer pop that we have no idea who he was the year before.

Deer can go up. Deer can go down.Sometimes A lot from year to year.

[El General]

You whole post talking in absolutes.....but mostly the last paragraph first sentence...

Let's break this down then.

Deer are born 1:1 or pretty close to it

This is generally accepted fact. Like nearly anything, if you find a small enough sample size you can contradict it, but in the big picture it is true.

Females tend to live longer than males.

In cervid populations, male rutting behavior tends to shorten their life expectancy. They fight with large pointy weapons on their heads, run all over the place, and don't eat much right before the time of year with the poorest available groceries. They also dedicate a bunch of calories to growing those weapons on their heads every year. All these things are bad for your health.

Females don't do much of that. In free ranging elk populations in the western states, there have been scientifically verified females aged at 25 years old. A 5 year old male is the exception rather than the rule.

So on a free range place you don’t need to shoot a bunch of bucks to keep the ratio near 1:1.

This is just math. If the average age of your females is more than the average age of your males and they are born 1:1, then you are going to naturally have more females than males. Even if you have achieved a 1:1 ratio at some point in time, bucks are more likely to die from factors other than hunting because of their behavior.

Shooting bucks makes no impact on herd numbers.

This could probably be stated more accurately as follows.

Shooting bucks makes no long term impact on herd numbers.

Say you have 1000 acres and 1 deer per 10 acres for 100 total deer. You have that perfect 1:1 ratio so you have 50 bucks and 50 does. Lets say that all your does get bred and they will all have twin fawns.

If you shoot 10 bucks in the fall you have 90 total deer. In the spring, your 50 does drop 100 fawns. You now have 190 total deer.

If you shoot 10 does in the fall, you have 90 total deer. In the spring, the 40 remaining does drop 80 fawns. You have 170 total deer.

Obviously, range conditions, fawn survival, the amount of fawns each doe drops, the number of impregnated does, etc, etc, are all factors that can vary the overall number of deer each way, but it does not change the base line numbers that you start with. Free range environments make these numbers even more inefficient as the deer can leave your area.

The facts are that doe harvest reduces the potential for the herd to increase. Buck harvest in real world conditions on a free range property where you are trying to let bucks mature does not materially decrease long term population numbers.

[Smart]

Let's break this down then.

Deer are born 1:1 or pretty close to it

Females tend to live longer than males.


So on a free range place you don’t need to shoot a bunch of bucks to keep the ratio near 1:1.

This is just math. If the average age of your females is more than the average age of your males and they are born 1:1, then you are going to naturally have more females than males. Even if you have achieved a 1:1 ratio at some point in time, bucks are more likely to die from factors other than hunting because of their behavior.

Shooting bucks makes no impact on herd numbers.

This could probably be stated more accurately as follows.

Shooting bucks makes no long term impact on herd numbers.

Say you have 1000 acres and 1 deer per 10 acres for 100 total deer. You have that perfect 1:1 ratio so you have 50 bucks and 50 does. Lets say that all your does get bred and they will all have twin fawns.

If you shoot 10 bucks in the fall you have 90 total deer. In the spring, your 50 does drop 100 fawns. You now have 190 total deer.

If you shoot 10 does in the fall, you have 90 total deer. In the spring, the 40 remaining does drop 80 fawns. You have 170 total deer.

Obviously, range conditions, fawn survival, the amount of fawns each doe drops, the number of impregnated does, etc, etc, are all factors that can vary the overall number of deer each way, but it does not change the base line numbers that you start with. Free range environments make these numbers even more inefficient as the deer can leave your area.

The facts are that doe harvest reduces the potential for the herd to increase. Buck harvest in real world conditions on a free range property where you are trying to let bucks mature does not materially decrease long term population numbers.

Lot of assumptions on the property conditions already, "generally accepted facts", lotta "tends to", "pretty close to", lotta variables shoulda, woulda, couldas to rubberstamp that like you did but you do you and keep reading..



"Shooting bucks makes no impact on herd numbers."........

[D C]

Skimming.... Im in.