LEO Question

[RiverRat1]

Ridiculous post right here - an "old park sign?" - give me a break

You need to read the story when the guy hit the owl in his truck.

And would you really believe the police are using your property to find your neighbors doing something bad? And NOT looking at you?

Now that's laughable.

[Quackerbox]

i generally try to stay out of these post but... i will join in being LEO myself...i will answer in short on a couple post and then be out.

your first post you said you just dont want the cops going wherever whenever they want, I would be willing to bet if they did not have a call for service they would not drive down your driveway to speak to your son, as for them being back "watching" a house at that point you can always call the department and speak to a supervisor about it to get further clarification as to what exactly they were doing.

As for a open privacy fence in a neighborhood, yes if they are dispatched to a call at that residence, alarm, disturbance, welfare concern, etc, yes law enforcement may enter that yard from the open fence. if patrolling a neighborhood at 2 or 3 am and a front door to a home is open, yes i will announce myself as police and enter the home, and i can articulate the reason why time,circumstance, general reason for entering, not just cause i want to. if a random civilian entered a home with the door open at anytime without permission then that is against the law Under Texas Penal Code Section 30.05, criminal trespass of habitation. Law enforcement still has to follow by Texas law but part of it they do not fall under because if they did they could not do the job.

if someone was running from the police and entered your private property would you like the police to stop chasing them and contact you for permission to enter first? not meaning to be smart, just putting it into perspective of what the issue was with them enter the property during a call for service or a investigation?

biggest advice I give anyone who asks me "law questions" is look it up, do your research for yourself and READ ALL OF THE LAW not just skim through it or read the first sentence, self educate yourself, don't just take my word, or a cop you see at the donut shop, or your buddies brothers girlfriends sister who knows a guy who dates a cop. knowledge is key and I advise everyone i meet to be as knowledgeable as possible on all the laws they can, law books can be bought by anyone and read.

rant over lol

Lol. Agreed

These threads are always entertaining

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[tvc184]

Lol. Agreed

These threads are always entertaining

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Entertaining? Heck, I am teaching Arrest, Search and Seizure next week at the Basic Police Academy.

I am taking notes to make sure that I pass on the correct information.....

[one66stang]

Entertaining? Heck, I am teaching Arrest, Search and Seizure next week at the Basic Police Academy.

I am taking notes to make sure that I pass on the correct information.....

Would you mind chiming in with your professional thoughts?

[dgilbert]

Don't call them when you really need a LEO because they cant come through your open gate, good grief.

[stickerpatch59]

i'd be glad they were coming around checking on me.

[Stan R]

Entertaining? Heck, I am teaching Arrest, Search and Seizure next week at the Basic Police Academy.

I am taking notes to make sure that I pass on the correct information.....

Let me know when your next class is with all the correct info. I'll drive over to take it. :-)

[Huntingfool]

You need to read the story when the guy hit the owl in his truck.

And would you really believe the police are using your property to find your neighbors doing something bad? And NOT looking at you?

Now that's laughable.

No what is laughable is when you or your family needs an LEO to save your butt. Be begging for one to come help you -

My son is an LEO - I know many of them personally.

If you have nothing to hide why would you worry if an LEO was looking at you? I think we all know the answer

[tvc184]

Let me know when your next class is with all the correct info. I'll drive over to take it. :-)

This coming Tuesday- Friday.

[tvc184]

No what is laughable is when you or your family needs an LEO to save your butt. Be begging for one to come help you -

My son is an LEO - I know many of them personally.

If you have nothing to hide why would you worry if an LEO was looking at you? I think we all know the answer

“If you have nothing to hide” is a good argument, we might as well toss out the Fourth Amendment.

I tell people all the time when some Second Amendment arguments comes up....
if you want to slow down any or all crimes (including mass shootings) it isn’t the Second that hampers the government (police), it is the Fourth.

Let the police search anything they want to, any time they want to and they can put a serious dent in any crimes.

[tvc184]

Would you mind chiming in with your professional thoughts?

I can give it my spin....

Open Fields - generally not protected by the 4th Amendment. It is not considered “effects” under SCOTUS interpretation of the 4th Amendment.

Curtilage - Grounds like open fields however it is so close to and used as part of a dwelling and living space, that it is generally protected under the 4th Amendment. A person can live on 50 acres but the curtilage is the area considered the living area. It is on a case by case basis but things like, swing sets, tables, patios, well kept/mowed grass, privacy or chain link fence etc. If it is part of the living space that is routinely used by the family, it is probably curtilage.

Trespassing signs - from the cases I have read, merely having a no trespassing sign does necessarily restrict an officer from merely knocking on the door. A locked gate does. A person is free not to answer the door if an officer does knock.

Exigent (emergency) circumstances - court rulings usually give the police the ability to do almost anything without a warrant...... if the situation is serious and there simply isn’t a couple of hours available to get a warrant. Probably the most protected area under the 4th Amendment is inside of a home. But even then if the situation calls for it, a home came be entered without a warrant. Such a case is Brigham City v. Stuart where the police entered a home and ended up arresting the homeowner for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I believe the police went to a home on a loud party complaint. Looking through slats in a privacy fence, they saw underaged drinking. Having witnessed what appeared to be a crime, the police entered the back yard. Through the glass patio doors, they then could see a disturbance and then several people appearing to strike a teen. The police entered under the emergency of stopping a serious assault. The SC of
Utah actually ruled against the officers, saying that witnessing a possible serious injury wasn’t justification to enter (huh?).... to possibly save someones life?? Yep... but... A unanimous SCOTUS said, SC of Utah, what in the heck were you thinking? Sure the cops can enter without a warrant to stop possible serious injury. While there they used evidence of the underage drinking which was a misdemeanor but the emergency entry wasn’t for a misdemeanor so anything inadvertently seen can be used as evidence. That brings up the Plain View Doctrine (PVD).

PVD - In common English plain view means that you can see it openly no matter the circumstances. In the PVD for seizing items, it requires three things. In PV is not considered a search and therefore not a 4th Amendment violation. To be in PV the three requirements are, the police had to be in that location lawfully, the item viewed could not be manipulated at all by the police AND.. it had to be “immediately apparent” that the item was contraband. In my opinion, at the moment something was seen by the police, they had to know almost instantly that it was criminal. For example, under the PVD the police cannot pick up a pack of cigarettes to see if someone hid marijuana inside. The pack can be openly seen but there is no indication of anything illegal “at that moment”. Walking up to a car and seeing what appears to be a sawed off shotgun with a 10” barrel (no question that it wasn’t 18”) would be valid under the PVD.

So....

I think the police can go through an unlocked gate under most circumstances. Add to it shots heard in the area. I don’t think there is any 4th Amendment violation.

Anything they can see in the open that is not directly associated with the living area of the house is unprotected as far as unlawful searches.

The surveillance of neighbor’s property from another person’s property without consent?? That one is tougher and there may be clear cut case law but I am not aware of any. The neighbor likely has no standing to complain as he has no right to privacy in the neighbor’s yard where the police are. I think the owner can ask the police to leave if they have no legitimate (exigent) business there but I am not really sure that the police are violating anything if they entered through an unlocked gate unless they are asked to leave or unless there is an exigent circumstance.

Clear as mud??

[adam_p]

Let the police search anything they want to, any time they want to

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7fCQlUhj0"]hell to the naw naw - bishop bullwinkle - YouTube[/ame]

[RiverRat1]

No what is laughable is when you or your family needs an LEO to save your butt. Be begging for one to come help you -

My son is an LEO - I know many of them personally.

If you have nothing to hide why would you worry if an LEO was looking at you? I think we all know the answer

I shouldn't bother responding..but here goes anyway.

On second thought..forget it. You'll never understand. You're blinded since your son is a LEO so nothing else matters.

And yes...I'm so illegal it's crazy. Everyone knows I have lots to hide

[LFD2037]

The oddest part of this is that sheriffs show up when a shot is fired out in the county. So do they spend all days trying to chase down “shots fired” calls all over the county?
If you call the sheriff where and I live and say “I heard gun shots”, the response will probably be “and?”. Gun shots in the country are common and not something people should be calling the law for as well as not something LEO should have to waste their time on.

[andre3k]

The oddest part of this is that sheriffs show up when a shot is fired out in the county. So do they spend all days trying to chase down “shots fired” calls all over the county?
If you call the sheriff where and I live and say “I heard gun shots”, the response will probably be “and?”. Gun shots in the country are common and not something people should be calling the law for as well as not something LEO should have to waste their time on.

It's regional. When I get reports of shots fired there's usually someone shot or dead when I arrive, but I don't police in a rural area.

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