Ilegal 9 point

[MQ32Shooter]

I bet the OPs deer was a spike once upon a time. That's why he isn't Legal as a 4yo.

Really? I guess with AR’s, bigger bucks, healthier deer herds, etc., we won’t be seeing spikes anymore because every bucks first set of horns will be a minimum of forks with a few 6’s mixed in. I’m excited about the future!

[jshouse]

Really? I guess with AR’s, bigger bucks, healthier deer herds, etc., we won’t be seeing spikes anymore because every bucks first set of horns will be a minimum of forks with a few 6’s mixed in. I’m excited about the future!

Yeeyee

[TXDUCKCUTTER]

Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.

The well managed leases Ive been on allow for both without having to worry about AR.I wouldn't want kids to be confused as to why they never see "big deer" when they are taught to shoot 2.5yr olds.Its my belief that your herd is what you shoot.Before long if your shooting 2.5 yr olds that's generally what will be available.Let them mature and get your herd right and although at 4.5yrs they get harder to kill,if they keep the ladies around and with alittle patience good things happen.

[woodsman]

The well managed leases Ive been on allow for both without having to worry about AR.I wouldn't want kids to be confused as to why they never see "big deer" when they are taught to shoot 2.5yr olds.Its my belief that your herd is what you shoot.Before long if your shooting 2.5 yr olds that's generally what will be available.Let them mature and get your herd right and although at 4.5yrs they get harder to kill,if they keep the ladies around and with alittle patience good things happen.

I can appreciate that.

There is more discussion after my post you quoted, where we addressed some of those points. I think several including myself are referring to a kid’s first kill, not a lifelong habit. And these competing objectives open the door for education. “Son, you shot a 4-point last year. This year, would you like to shoot a bigger one? Well, we’ll have to let these younger ones go so we can kill them when they’re older.” Then someday he might even develop a passion for killing a mature buck, regardless of antler size. Or maybe not. Cool either way with me. I believe the desire to progress comes naturally for most hunters. But if not, so what.

What I don’t believe, is that we should be forced to open up the chute expecting them to ride for 8 seconds. Granted, some young kids are ready for it. Would just be great if the state allowed beginning hunters a choice, without forcing them to travel great distances, spend excessive $$$ or spend every weekend in the blind which many parents can’t afford to do, or who simply have other family/weekend priorities that are important to maintain.

$.02.

[basschump]

I can appreciate that.

There is more discussion after my post you quoted, where we addressed some of those points. I think several including myself are referring to a kid’s first kill, not a lifelong habit. And these competing objectives open the door for education. “Son, you shot a 4-point last year. This year, would you like to shoot a bigger one? Well, we’ll have to let these younger ones go so we can kill them when they’re older.” Then someday he might even develop a passion for killing a mature buck, regardless of antler size. Or maybe not. Cool either way with me. I believe the desire to progress comes naturally for most hunters. But if not, so what.

What I don’t believe, is that we should be forced to open up the chute expecting them to ride for 8 seconds. Granted, some young kids are ready for it. Would just be great if the state allowed beginning hunters a choice, without forcing them to travel great distances, spend excessive $$$ or spend every weekend in the blind which many parents can’t afford to do, or who simply have other family/weekend priorities that are important to maintain.

$.02.

The horse twitched- more flogging !

Without a doubt there could be great benefits for youth a ‘first buck’ provision. I’m a father with a teenage son. We’ve hunted in AR counties, day hunts, package hunts, leases, and with friends. His first two bucks were a nice nines taken in AR counties.

Hunting, as stated earlier, competes with lots of other activities. If kids play competitive or select anything- hunting time is limited. Instant gratification isn’t limited to the younger generation- which is reflected in the way most of us hunt ( corn feeders, live game cams, endless gadgetry). My father (now 86) completed his hunting career prior to feeders. His style of hunting, sadly, is nearly a lost art in Texas.

I think there is tremendous pressure put on kids to kill deer.. How many kids get to roam, unsupervised, with a pellet gun. How about a 22? Do any kids hunt small game anymore?
As woodsman stated-
Coming out of the chute and ride for 8. I think that is accurate form many kids- straight to deer hunting (from a blind over bait) without any sense of hunting and staking anything type of game.

Other states require youth to be 12 to take big game. In Texas, it’s common for a fist deer to be take much younger In western states- there may not be a opportunity to draw a tag each year. Point being- AR’s may restrict buck harvest, but doesn’t restrict opportunity to go hunt (over a long season).

Lastly- As texas has become increasing fragmented, wildlife management will become increasingly more difficult. AR’s are not perfect- but it is a mechanism that is adaptive to changing ownership patterns. There are other options that get to the same endpoint as AR’s- such as drawing for tags for non-mld properties or a short rifle season, e.g. 5 days. These strategies limit opportunity- thus harvest.

Cool thread. Lots of good perspectives.












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[Dale Moser]

God forbid we ask our kids to wait a little longer, or put in a little more work, for the benefit of the resource.


Go hunting, take a kid, follow the rules, have fun.....you'll be surprised how much more fun it is when you quit worrying about it so much.

[Smart]

A kid's first buck provision would be a nightmare to enforce. And somebody somewhere would find a way to exploit it to the benefit of an adult...just like the youth season.