Question for Rifle Reloaders

[texag93]

Acceptable hunting accuracy for a "deer rifle" would be 1.5" groups consistantly at 100yds with the bullet of choice. Honestly 2" at 100yds would work. BUT....for me, I like to see all my rifles shoot 3/4" or less at 100yds. Why? "only accurate rifles are interesting."

[AggieHunter]

308?

[texag93]

Rem 700 LTR in 308

[HOYTPRO2001]

I am also a stickler for perfection on some guns that are capiable of doing it. My varmint guns shoot about 3/4" at 100 but my deer guns shoot better than a 1/2". This is sufficent to kill at my hunting ranges and I know the guns can do it if I do my part. I strive for 1/2" or better but sometimes give in for a better bullet choice or maybe to use the same powder in 2 guns (of the same caliber). Speed usually will dictate if that combo of parts will work. Start out at a low(or acceptable) rate of speed and climb till pressure is an issue(stopping point). Something as easy as seating depht can make a world of difference at little cost. Sometimes the brand of primers can be the ticket.
Good luck and happy shooting!!!!

BY THE WAY, Your groups with the 308 are VERY good. Most people never see that kind of groups with target guns.

[texag93]

BY THE WAY, Your groups with the 308 are VERY good. Most people never see that kind of groups with target guns.

It doesn't do that every time. Everything fell in place that day. It will hang around 1/2" most of the time. The day I shot that group, I couldn't figure out where my 3rd shot went...in the same hole.

[Cottonfish]

In a hunting rifle, I like to see consistent grouping (no vertical or horizontal stringing, or unexplained fliers), the rifle/scope combo readily respond to sighting changes as expected, and no larger than about 1.5 inch groups at 100 yds from a scoped bolt action. I would expect the same rifle to do around 2-4 inches at 300 yards if I do my part. Consistent, repeatable performance is worth more to me than most anything. I have a chronograph, so I like to find the loads with the best combination of velocity, low extreme spread, and low standard deviation. Again, we're talking consistency. Most cartridges have time-proven loads that will perform well in most rifles chambered for them, like 60 grains of H4831 behind a 130gr bullet in a .270 Winchester, so you can begin development around them (always start below and work up, no load responds the same way in 2 different rifles!).

I handload for 2 rifles, a Remmy M700 in 7mm Rem Mag, and a Ruger M77 in .257 Ackley Improved. The stock barrel 7mm will do no better than 1.5 inches at 100 yards, 'cause my Dad had it throated for long-seated bullets and I can't get 'em out close to the rifling. I can get the Ruger (it has a Douglas stainless barrel) down to 1 inch with heavy 117gr bullets that typically don't do will in the 1/10 standard .25 caliber twist barrel. I actually made my longest shot on a whitetail, 412 yards, with the 7mm.

Look for a load that gives you consistently good performance, and if the rifle responds well to several different loads, don't ever sell it.

Stu

[Ron]

In my reloading, I first find a bullet that performs it's function the best, expansion, accuracy, and normal balllistic coefficents. Going with the recomended loads from that bullet manufactures book, tweak it, till I like it's performance. I have had excellent luck with Nosler.

Thanks

I was going to post this on the accurate reloading website, but thought i'd get a quite different response. I wanted to hear from people that I know hunt.

From a HUNTERS standpoint, and I'll focus on deer (but you can expand if you'd like), what is your acceptable level of accuracy when working up a new load? For the sake of discussion lets say your acceptable group sizes w/ 25 cal. and larger? Or if you shoot smaller (Like if you created your own new round and you can shoot jagged little holes w/ your eyes closed.... Hi Blake ) what do you expect out of it (and what is it).

I'm just curious what other people expect out of a hunting rifle. I've only been reloading for a couple of years and when I started I told myself if I could get 1" groups I would be satisfied. Now I find myself saying that 1" isn't bad, but i'd really be happy if i could get .5" or smaller.

[muzzlebrake]

Don't forget the glass factor.
Shot strings and flyers can mean a scope won't hold Zero.
You will find that a lot in cheap scopes.
One rule of thumb is that the glass should cost at least as much as the gun.
That may or may not be overkill but it works fer me.
I have seen more than one gun be saved just by putting on a quality scope.

Scoping is another whole chapter.

[tommy1005]

1" is my minimum on all my guns, but all of them shoot consistently in the 1/2-3/4 range. My 30-06 is consistently 3/4", but I took 4 coyotes this year from 268 - 384 yds all but one was a head shot. It's all about being comfortable behind the rifle. My 270 WSM shoots 1/4" groups at 100, but I don't feel comfortable in the deer stand with it for some reason. It's a new gun and haven't gotten acquainted with it yet I guess. Whereas I've had my 30-06 for 15 years and made shots at all different ranges with it and it is my go to gun in the safe. I know that I can pull it out and hit whatever I want to at whatever yardage.

[ILUVBIGBUCKS]

What I've learned over the years is that the 1st thing to be concerned with is the rifle you're building a recipe for simply good enough to get where you want it to be! If you believe so then I simply work on it until I get it as good as possible and that usually is cutting a single hole at 100 yards. I have only experienced not getting a specific powder to deliver what I wanted 2 or three times. I use a digital scale and start my loads out towards the 'cooler' end of the chart and work my way up to the 'hotter' end by varying the charge by .3 of a grain.

It is hard to believe but I've got a .308 that when I started to work a recipe I was ready to throw it in the garbage with the 1st 8 loads I shot! I could not get it under an 1" and some of the groups were well over 2". I load 5 rounds exactly the same for each test. The very last recipe I shot was at the 'hottest' end of the load data and I went from a 1.25" 5 shot group to an amazing 1 hole group with just .3 gr power charge difference.

I guess that I've been very lucky in that all of my rifles will shoot a ragged hole at 100 with 5 rounds. But, it has taken hours of working different recipes and test firing to get it there.

By the way, as far as being able to hold it there and know that it is not me causing a bad group I rely on a good rifle rest with windage and elevation adjustments.

[AggieHunter]

Okay, so I'll add to it.


As mentioned above, I too am a stickler for terminal performance in a bullet. Whether it be the bullets ability to hold together and penetrate on a thicker skinned animal or how quickly it will put down a whitetail, I will not stick w/ something thats not doing what I want.

Whats more important to you in a hunting round? Accuracy or performance? Are you willing to sacrafice some level of accuracy for a bullet that performs better?

Btw I tested a new load today and 120gr Nosler Balistic out of a 7mm-08 performs GREAT on deer

[Dusty]

My reloading has little to do with my hunting. I reload cause I like to shoot and reloading allows me to do that more than I could if I bought them and if I am going to shoot I like it to be as accurate as possible. I love seeing cloverleaves on the target. There is nothing like being ablle to go through a couple of hundred rounds in a session with 6-7 different guns, then you get to go back and reloed them all and start all over!!!

[Buglemintoday]

[Cottonfish]

Okay, so I'll add to it.


As mentioned above, I too am a stickler for terminal performance in a bullet. Whether it be the bullets ability to hold together and penetrate on a thicker skinned animal or how quickly it will put down a whitetail, I will not stick w/ something thats not doing what I want.

Whats more important to you in a hunting round? Accuracy or performance? Are you willing to sacrafice some level of accuracy for a bullet that performs better?

Btw I tested a new load today and 120gr Nosler Balistic out of a 7mm-08 performs GREAT on deer

To answer your question directly, I will sacrifice some level of accuracy for performance in a hunting application. That's why I sling 117gr Hornady SST's out of my .257, when a shorter 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip or Sierra Pro Hunter has proven much more accurate in that rifle. For that particular load, I very much like the SST's combination of high ballistic coefficient (flatter long-range trajectory) and semi-controlled expansion (Interlock feature) that makes it a tougher bullet than the Ballistic Tip.

I also favor heavy for caliber bullets in hunting applications (except, for some reason, in the .270 Winchester, where I think the 130gr bullet is perfect for anything smaller than elk). If I had nothing but Nosler Partitions to shoot through any of my rifles, I would be a happy man, even though there are much more accurate bullets out there. If you made me choose the one "perfect" hunting projectile, it would be the Partition. Although I shoot Hornady Interbonds out of my 7mm right now, I have some Partitions to begin load development on this year. In my old .270, I found favor with performance of 130gr Partitions over Ballistic Tips, even though the 'Tips were more accurate.

Then again, that's the Zen of reloading: you put together what makes you happy, and what you have confidence in. The fact that load development helps you shoot more and more often, helps you become more familiar and confident with your rifle, just like extensive practice with your bow.

As always, these are my opinions, and YMMV.

Stu